The contradiction of Noah and the Ark

[ParanoidAndroid]

Just by reading the thread title, I'm guessing some of you who have engaged in apologetics with non-Christians might already be trying to formulate answers to the 2-pair/7-pair anomaly in Genesis 6 and 7. In reality, this is not a contradiction, and that is not what this thread is about. For the record, this is the passage in question:

You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him. ~ Genesis 6:19-7:5

We all know the story. God sends the flood to destry the animals. Non-Christians try to show up a "contradiction" in these verse by contrasting 6:19, which states "two of all living creatures" with the very next sentence in 7:2 where it says "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal..... and two of every kind of unclean animal" (the "contradiction" apparently being that God only mentioned 2 pairs in the first, but a paragraph later mentioned seven pairs). I always find this one of the most laughable "contradictions" in the whole of non-Christian propaganda. It's a simple matter that the second section is expanding on God's comments in the first.

But what floors me every single time I read this (it's usually quoted verbatim from such sites as "evilbible.com", which is somehow less biased than apologetics sites according to the non-believers - oh, and the biggest hoot - when we quote apologetics sites, we're "parroting" dogma and they're quoting is "logical expression" ).... but I digress. What floors me is that they miss a much BIGGER CONTRADICTION that should be shouting out at anyone who knows Old Testament history. The fact that they miss it out on this very simple piece of history in every single list of "Bible Contradictions" just shows how little study the compilers actually put into making up those lists (I wouldn't be surprised if they used a computer program to search for key-words and phrases, found a match that seemed a little off, and then just whacked it in the list)....

Anyhow, that contradiction that I see in this passage is - The Levitical Laws on Clean and Unclean foods were not written until generations after Noah existed. God commanding Noah to bring "seven pairs of clean animals" (presumably for eating) is not something that would ever have been understood by Noah, since that law wasn't created till well after the revelation at Mt Sinai, generations after Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and well into Moses' era (skipping sundry generations in between).

There are two clear answers I can think of to answer this question. 1- either Moses wrote it and extrapolated his own views from Leviticus (which would have been written in his time) to make the story more appealing and acceptable to the Israelites who would later read it under the Law, or 2- there was already a Covenant in existence with Noah (or perhaps before Noah) - however, this second theory suffers from the fact that there is a complete lack of historical or biblical evidence for such a covenant ever existing.

This post, I guess is half-rant/half-question - half ranting at what I call "non-Christian apologetics" which are as dishonest as they claim ours to be *though sometimes Christians do stretch the truth to make their view more appealing - but that's a different argument*, and it's half-question - what are your thoughts on the apparent time-line conundrum. If the Covenant at Sinai did not exist in Noah's age, then why are healthy eating laws from that Covenant given to Noah as he brought the animals onto the ark?

Any and all thoughts and views appreciated

~ Paranoid Android

[Xan]

Good question. The only thing I can think of is there were animal sacrifices prior to the flood, but there were no covenents in place that said they had to do that. Yet, somehow they knew they were supposed to. I'm not sure how, but what I am sure of is God only wanted clean animals sacrificed, so with applying logic, then since God let it be known animals were to be sacrificed, He would have let them know which kind to sacrifice.

[Leonard]

In Hebrew tradition, these laws were offered first to ALL MANKIND--not just to the Jews--and there were righteous people (few and far between) who performed the correct sacrifices. If you look at Genesis 3, you will see that Adam and Eve are clothed by God Himself in "skins of animals," which Rabbis have uniformly taken to mean that God showed Adam and Eve HOW TO DO SACRIFICES for their sins.

That we have no written record as early as the Flood could mean simply that the Deluge wiped out all records of the era, or that the prophetically revealed sacrificial system was never written down. I think it is quite an extraordinary stretch to classify this as a contradiction.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I think it is quite an extraordinary stretch to classify this as a contradiction.

I'm not meaning to imply it is a "contradiction". I believe the Bible is the perfect, inspired, and incontravertable words of God (inerrant, if you will). I was just saying that from a purely non-Christian view, this historical discrepency is a bigger contradiction than anything they could come up with the general lists they do (and certainly far less farcical than the Gen6:19/7:2 quote that pops up on non-Christian apologetics sites). It's just that none of them (or at least very few of them - by that, I mean I have yet to see any) have the knowledge to actually point this out, which should be on any mandatory list of "contradictions" that some non-Christians would like to come up with.

As for the rest of your post, thanks for sharing. i understand your point of view, and you make a good point, particularly about Adam and Eve's clothing (and the Rabbinic view of this). My own view is a little more.... unorthodox... but for the time being, I don't want to derail the question, so I do thank you for your input, and it does make sense, at least to a certain extent.

All the best,

[Fraught]

odd but i was just studying about this last week. there is no doubt in my mind that the idea of clean and unclean animals was clearly understood in the days of adam and eve. also sacrifice, since abel sacrificed to God. the sad thing is that the reasoning behind the idea is lost. moses' people didn't question it, so it must have been one of those things that was just taken for granted that everyone knew about it - something like the idea of shaking hands nowadays or covering your mouth when you cough.

[Lekcit]

Keep in mind that the seven animals were not for eating but strictly for sacrifice. It wasn't until after the flood that God even allowed man to eat meat.

Look to Genesis 9 for the allowance to eat meat after the flood.

Further, there was a covenant established between God and Adam. It was for more than just clothing that God killed the two animals after the fall. He was showing that there was no remission of sins without the shedding of blood.

[glorywatch]

I don't see it as a contradiction. It's a clear indication that some were to be used for sacrifice and some for the purposes of reproduction. Yes, the Levitical Laws were not handed down until Moses, but this passage indicates there was a knowledge of "clean" and "unclean".

[EricH]

We know that God knew what was clean and unclean. We can deduce He explained this to Noah (as Noah managed to carry it out). Moses wrote Genesis and was familiar with clean / unclean. I don't really see a contradiction or an issue.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just by reading the thread title, I'm guessing some of you who have engaged in apologetics with non-Christians might already be trying to formulate answers to the 2-pair/7-pair anomaly in Genesis 6 and 7. In reality, this is not a contradiction, and that is not what this thread is about. For the record, this is the passage in question:

You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him. ~ Genesis 6:19-7:5

We all know the story. God sends the flood to destry the animals. Non-Christians try to show up a "contradiction" in these verse by contrasting 6:19, which states "two of all living creatures" with the very next sentence in 7:2 where it says "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal..... and two of every kind of unclean animal" (the "contradiction" apparently being that God only mentioned 2 pairs in the first, but a paragraph later mentioned seven pairs). I always find this one of the most laughable "contradictions" in the whole of non-Christian propaganda. It's a simple matter that the second section is expanding on God's comments in the first.

But what floors me every single time I read this (it's usually quoted verbatim from such sites as "evilbible.com", which is somehow less biased than apologetics sites according to the non-believers - oh, and the biggest hoot - when we quote apologetics sites, we're "parroting" dogma and they're quoting is "logical expression" ).... but I digress. What floors me is that they miss a much BIGGER CONTRADICTION that should be shouting out at anyone who knows Old Testament history. The fact that they miss it out on this very simple piece of history in every single list of "Bible Contradictions" just shows how little study the compilers actually put into making up those lists (I wouldn't be surprised if they used a computer program to search for key-words and phrases, found a match that seemed a little off, and then just whacked it in the list)....

Anyhow, that contradiction that I see in this passage is - The Levitical Laws on Clean and Unclean foods were not written until generations after Noah existed. God commanding Noah to bring "seven pairs of clean animals" (presumably for eating) is not something that would ever have been understood by Noah, since that law wasn't created till well after the revelation at Mt Sinai, generations after Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and well into Moses' era (skipping sundry generations in between).

There are two clear answers I can think of to answer this question. 1- either Moses wrote it and extrapolated his own views from Leviticus (which would have been written in his time) to make the story more appealing and acceptable to the Israelites who would later read it under the Law, or 2- there was already a Covenant in existence with Noah (or perhaps before Noah) - however, this second theory suffers from the fact that there is a complete lack of historical or biblical evidence for such a covenant ever existing.

This post, I guess is half-rant/half-question - half ranting at what I call "non-Christian apologetics" which are as dishonest as they claim ours to be *though sometimes Christians do stretch the truth to make their view more appealing - but that's a different argument*, and it's half-question - what are your thoughts on the apparent time-line conundrum. If the Covenant at Sinai did not exist in Noah's age, then why are healthy eating laws from that Covenant given to Noah as he brought the animals onto the ark?

Any and all thoughts and views appreciated

~ Paranoid Android

There is no contradiction at all. Going back to the story of Cain and Abel, we see that Cain did not bring what was acceptable before the Lord. So, going back that far, we see that there was already a standard as to what could and could not be brought as a sacrifice, and Cain chose to be disobedient.

You are running off the assumption that God had not revealed his laws prior to Mt. Sinai, and that assumption is simply not true.

Noah was, according to the Scriptures the ONLY righteous man in the earth prior to the flood when God came to Him and commanded him to build the ark.

So, by what standard was Noah measured against? How would it be determined without a law/standard that Noah was more righteous than anyone else??? Without a revealed law or standard, such a claim about Noah would have been impossible.

Please note that God did not have to instruct Noah as to which animals were clean or unclean. He already knew. Noah knew, because He was obedient to God's law, which animals were clean and which were not and no elaboration on God's part was necessary.

It is very simple really. God's standards existed in the earth long before Sinai. It is just that Sinai is the first place where they are spelled out for us. God's law is as eternal as He is.

[Guest starways]

Disclaimer: It is purely my personal thoughts and not meant to offend any readers.

All that appears as contradition in Bible is not really contradiction when perceived with positive thinking but stepping stone to search and seek the truth existence of God which creates curiosity to read and know more about the word of God. It is absolute insight. For one reader Bible could be full of many contradictions and yet for the other it is a spring of Wisdom.

On the contrary, the same contradiction warrants the understanding ....

The prophecy still hold true for christians or non-christians who sees contradictions as a main stumbling block in experiencing God.

Proverbs 3:5 (Whole Chapter)

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding

Isaiah 6:9 (Whole Chapter)

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Isaiah 40:28 (Whole Chapter)

Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Isaiah 44:18 (Whole Chapter)

They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Having quoted the above, pre-christians or christians or for that matter anyone who reads the Old Testament could take into account that Pentateuch" has been written by Moses so many centuries after Noah, and is a combination of written texts and oral tradition (referred as Torah in Hebrew)

The compilers of Bible has tried their best to provide as much facts that were available in the history of Partriarchs.

Ofcourse, It is an undeniable truth that all works of human is fallible. However, the compilers has tried their best to expose the blessing of following God's commandments, righteous living, faith and obedience, laws and precepts VS the curses associated when the commandments and law of God is breached.

I would rather support the Gospel compiler's preface to Gospel, which clearly states "The focus of producing a Bible is to open the knowledge abt God to all human kind, rather providing a book of accurate statistics and clean history of God's creation or Patriarchs, which may run into million of pages.

Edited July 25, 2008 by starways