Romans 13?

[jeffnevins]

I'm not sure if Paul was speaking in absolutes, but in his time up to ours there have been leaders against God.

Just curious what peoples' take on this chapter are.

Apologies if this has come up recently.

[BlindSeeker]

I'm not sure if Paul was speaking in absolutes, but in his time up to ours there have been leaders against God.

Just curious what peoples' take on this chapter are.

Apologies if this has come up recently.

Are you asking about the whole chapter, the first part . . . what exactly is your concern?

[jeffnevins]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...amp;version=31;

v1-7

What if a leader is a nonbeliever or against God? Just curious.

Thanks for any insights.

[Fraught]

for myself, i set these words alongside the rest of the bible as i think we should do with all the bible. paul himself apparently disobeyed some governing authorities or he would not have landed in jail himself. if he lived today, i see him driving the speed limit, obtaining a fishing license, paying taxes, etc. however, if he were told not to preach the gospel, he would go ahead and do it, while being prepared to pay the consequences.

[EricH]

Here is the passage:

Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God's command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do good and you will have its approval. For government is God's servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience.

Romans 13:1-5 HCSB

The passage makes several statements:

1. That all authorities are established by God. This tell us God is soveriegn over all governments whether good or bad

2. That the general principle is for us to submit to these governments because they are established by God. We do it not because they deserve it (they don't), but because we owe it to God. This is the same as a marriage relationship. The husband loves his wife unconditionally not because she deserves it, but because God asks it. The wife submits to the husband not because he deserves it, but because God asks it. It is a service to God

3. Just as with many commands, there are exceptions. In the case of submission to a government, the only time we are not to submit to them is when they ask us to do something that would violate a command God has given us. For example, even though the apostle Paul believed we should submit to the government, he continued to preach the gospel even when the government forbid him to do so. We see this exhibited in the lives of the other apostles as well. Paul continued to obey that same government ina all other respects (he paid his taxes, used the legal system etc).

HTH

[jeffnevins]

OK. Good explanation.

[anitarose]

This doesn't just apply to government either. ANY authority, all the way down to your bosses, you should obey like this. I always use this example when talking to employees, and believe it or not, they understand it. You may not like how they act or what they do, but you should respect and obey the position they are in because God allowed them in that position for a reason. And, unless they ask you to do something that is against your belief system (aka against God's word), you should obey them fully, because when you are obeying them, you are actually obeying God. To go against them, you are going against the Lord, and that is the LAST thing you want to do.

I hope I'm making myself clear, cause I just woke up and saw this thread.

a.

[jeffnevins]

This doesn't just apply to government either. ANY authority, all the way down to your bosses, you should obey like this. I always use this example when talking to employees, and believe it or not, they understand it. You may not like how they act or what they do, but you should respect and obey the position they are in because God allowed them in that position for a reason. And, unless they ask you to do something that is against your belief system (aka against God's word), you should obey them fully, because when you are obeying them, you are actually obeying God. To go against them, you are going against the Lord, and that is the LAST thing you want to do.

I hope I'm making myself clear, cause I just woke up and saw this thread.

a.

Yep. That's why I posted this.

Because Paul didn't give the disclaimer of not following or respecting this leaders against God.

Leaders were against God in his day, and have been up to ours. Then there's extreme examples like Stalin...

Maybe Paul forgot to write that, or people knew automatically. Thanks-