Biblical tongues

[ParanoidAndroid]

The point is---millions of Christians experience this gift. We speak in tongues for the exhortation of the assembly and there is accompanying interpretation also. Do you disparage the interpretive gift? Why not? Why not trample on those who are given that particular gift?

Why do you trample on things you do not experience? Because of fear...or chosen ignorance. Millions of believers, young and old joyfully erupt into inknown language when they deeply worship or appeal to God in prayer. It happens and we cannot, nor will we deny it. It follows Scripture and does not vary with it.

All the noise about this gift that we are blessed to possess is merely from those who don't want it. When you do, just ask God who gives with liberality. You cannot knock what millions know personally. It insults the brethren and grieves God. I would never want to be one who grieves the Holy Spirit by knocking Him in such a way. It's one thing to not understand the giftings, but it is another thing to argue against them with those who actually use them.

This argument is the equivalent of "this many people can't be wrong". There are hundreds of religions out there, and all of them claim to have it right. Just because there are these people who experience this does not by default make it a true experience. This emphasis on gifts of the Spirit moves away from the emphasis of Jesus' ministry, which wasn't about gifts of the Spirit, but about salvation, repentance and the glory of the coming Kingdom of God.

I am neither afraid nor ignorant. I am just saying what the Bible says. Pentecostals call themselves this largely because of the gifts of the Spirit that were manifested during Pentecost to the early believers. The "tongues" that the apostles spoke were not a different language, but rather each person who heard them, heard it in their own language.

No one has yet to provide a biblical explanation of "tongues" as it applies to the Pentecostal movement. Why is it only Charismatic churches that manifest the gift of tongues? Surely if the gift of tongues was universal to Christianity, then people from other areas of conservative Christianity would also do the same. But they don't. It requires the passion and zeal that can only be achieved with large masses congregating and concentrating on this. And from a psychological point of view, the effects of a mass gathering can have profound effects on the human psyche and not necessarily be a manifestation of God but rather a manifestation of ones own subconscious mind - hypnotists do this all the time by manipulating thoughts and ideas. Group-hysteria can have similar effects.

I'm not trying to rubbish your beliefs, Floatingaxe. It is not in any way my intention to shake your belief, and I'm sure what I have said has not done that. You will still passionately believe in the tongues of angels just as I will continue to believe there is no biblical precedent for it. All the best,

~ PA

[ParanoidAndroid]

If one doesn't do it, then fine, but it is a bona fide ability that the Holy Spirit gives any Christian just for the asking... and sometimes apart from the asking! Hallelujah!

Just curious, but if someone were to ask and nothing happened then I guess the response would be "you didn't pray hard enough" or "you didn't truly submit yourself to God's spirit". There is more to this than simply asking God for it. Otherwise many Christians outside Charismatic Churches would be doing it.

[Floatingaxe]

If one doesn't do it, then fine, but it is a bona fide ability that the Holy Spirit gives any Christian just for the asking... and sometimes apart from the asking! Hallelujah!

Just curious, but if someone were to ask and nothing happened then I guess the response would be "you didn't pray hard enough" or "you didn't truly submit yourself to God's spirit". There is more to this than simply asking God for it. Otherwise many Christians outside Charismatic Churches would be doing it.

I did ask many times, but as I was persistent with God and kept to seeking after Him (as He teaches us to persevere), I finally realized it was a matter of submitting and emptying totally my body and mind to Him in praise and worship, and that is when He saw fit to bless me with my language.

No, there is nothing more to it than asking and submitting. There are a LOT of Christians out there who for one reason or another cannot or fo not want to do that. Many Christians outside of Charismatic churches ARE doing it, although they may not get much teaching or support for it.

[Floatingaxe]

If one doesn't do it, then fine, but it is a bona fide ability that the Holy Spirit gives any Christian just for the asking... and sometimes apart from the asking! Hallelujah!

Just curious, but if someone were to ask and nothing happened then I guess the response would be "you didn't pray hard enough" or "you didn't truly submit yourself to God's spirit". There is more to this than simply asking God for it. Otherwise many Christians outside Charismatic Churches would be doing it.

I did ask many times, but as I was persistent with God and kept to seeking after Him (as He teaches us to persevere), I finally realized it was a matter of submitting and emptying totally my body and mind to Him in praise and worship, and that is when He saw fit to bless me with my language.

No, there is nothing more to it than asking and submitting. There are a LOT of Christians out there who for one reason or another cannot or fo not want to do that. Many Christians outside of Charismatic churches ARE doing it, although they may not get much teaching or support for it.

so if you ask and dont get them it is because you have not submitted enough?

We have to allow it to come. There is an act of submitting that we must do to receive it, so in some cases, yes. The mind can think itself out of many things. It certainly isn't God playing some cat and mouse game. He makes us ready to receive it, and in due time we will. Some receive it years later after salvation, like me, and others will receive it at salvation, happily, and a lot of people are blessed to receive it at water baptism. That's always cool to witness. Yet others receive it after a major deliverance, a close encounter with God. That is a blessing indeed.

[Floatingaxe]

We have to allow it to come. There is an act of submitting that we must do to receive it, so in some cases, yes. The mind can think itself out of many things. It certainly isn't God playing some cat and mouse game. He makes us ready to receive it, and in due time we will. Some receive it years later after salvation, like me, and others will receive it at salvation, happily, and a lot of people are blessed to receive it at water baptism. That's always cool to witness. Yet others receive it after a major deliverance, a close encounter with God. That is a blessing indeed.

What about the millions upon millions of Christians that never receive it?

I mean, doesn’t it seem that a gift that is supposed to be universal should be more wide spread?

The majority of Christians never speak in tongues. According to a survey, at least 40% of the Pentecostals never speak in tongues.

I have been a Christian for going on 20 years, I have been to churches of all denominations and in more than a half a dozen countries, and I would put the number of people I know that speak in tongues at less than 10%.

There are a good numbers of leaders from the NT that did not speak in tongues as far as we know.

The Church has failed herself in missing the depth of the Spirit-filled life. I thank God for the privilege of living in these days.

Of all the Christians I have known in my life, about 80% believe that we are given tongues at the infilling, but of those in my own present church family--100% believe and about 90% use their spiritual language.

I believe all leaders in the New Testament would have had a prayer language and used it continually, as desired and as compelled.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15

For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.

[Floatingaxe]

The Church has failed in many ways over the last two millennia. In this particular matter, it's most definite. Not judgmental---fact.

[Floatingaxe]

My entire life has been spent outside of pentecostalism, as if it is any of your business. This is not a denominational issue.

[Floatingaxe]

The Bible doesn't back your premise up that God's chosen leaders, apostles did not use the gifts given them, including the spiritual language of prayer that Paul speaks of. I can safely assume they did!

why is it when I read this it seems to me that Paul is not saying that praying in the tongues is a good thing?

Paul says nothing about any gift of God as not being good! You are reading your own bias into Scripture. Spiritual understanding says that it is beneficial for us in that we are edified. Our minds are unfruitful (bypassed), but our spirits are built up in Christ. All good.[

Paul was merely teaching that we don't use our tongues for public show, or indiscriminately, without wisdom, not thinking of the need for the general assembly to know what the Word of God is saying. The natural tongue is best for that over the supernatural one, but there is a time and place for both.

[Floatingaxe]

I agree, but the Bible does not back up the premise that the spiritual language of prayer is a gift given to all, so you are adding your own words when you assume that they all did.

Paul was speaking to EVERYONE.

But is it not even better for both the mind and the spirit to be bulit up at the same time? why would you want to bypass one, which Paul says is not good.

Who are we to qualify what God considers all good anyway? God does what He does! Paul doesn't say anything is NOT GOOD.

1 Corinthians 14:4

A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

We must use discretion in the use of the MINISTRY gift of tongues, which is not the prayer language we use privately.

[Floatingaxe]

The Church has failed in many ways over the last two millennia. In this particular matter, it's most definite. Not judgmental---fact.

this is not fact, this is your opinion, nothing else. It is your opinion, and yes, it is judgemental to tell me that I have failed since I dont speak in tongues.

if we were to ask 100 people on here where the church has failed over the last two millennia, we would get 100 different answers, that is because every answer would be a person's opinion, not fact

It is a fact that the Church has failed in many ways, especially where it had given over to the control of the RCC. We have made up much ground, but still have a ways to go.

For you to think I have criticized you for not speaking in tongues is your own misunderstanding. I have not said it because I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IT! Is that why you are dogged about this issue?