Losing salvation

[Khristeeanos]

Oh, and trust me, there are a lot of people who use OSAS as a license to sin. That is not directed at any person, just in general.

I myself used it as such while I was ensnared in sexual sins. Pornography is a HUGE deal in today's age. It is always just a mouse click away.

And the NT is full of warnings against sexual sins:

Matthew 5:27-28

[Guest idied2]

Hey phelanfine

Is this the door? That you mentioned in the other post.?

The only way today to live above sin while still here on earth is to come out of living by the power of the beast (nation) and live in faith in the LORD alone

In CHRIST JESUS :hug:

[BobTriez]

Oh, and trust me, there are a lot of people who use OSAS as a license to sin.  That is not directed at any person, just in general.

I myself used it as such while I was ensnared in sexual sins.  Pornography is a HUGE deal in today's age.  It is always just a mouse click away.

So are you saying you base your salvation on your obedience to the law ?

[Guest Called]

Where is that can of worms picture when you need it! HA!

Just trying to lighten the mood.

[jmwhalen]

Dime Ministries writes:"If OSAS is true, then why did The Apostle Paul tell the SAINTS in Galatia that it was possible for them to still miss out on heaven?

QUOTE

Galatians 5:19-21; 6:7-10

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God...Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers"

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Typical of those who do not understand the gospel of Christ, and the doctrines of grace, justification, propitiation, imputation

[jmwhalen]

Born Again writes:

"So here's my take on OSAS- I don't believe it. I will not back it up with scripture (since most has already done so), but instead with my experience (short version! ) I was saved at an early age, but never made God 1#. I had no disregard for Him or His Word- I only prayed when I needed something- I drank- I cussed- didn't go to church- I didn't even like it when my sister talked about her church or when she talked about how awesome God is (she doesn't know it, but she used to get on my nerves with it - the truth comes out!). If I would have died during that time, I believe I would have not gone to Heaven. The Rapture used to scare the pants off of me, but now I welcome it.

The Holy Spirit didn't leave me alone- the last few years I felt a conviction I ignored (again, I believe I would have gone to Hell). I finally gave in (how stupid of me not to do it sooner!) and now I look back on my experience with this new belief (I was raised Baptist, and they believe OSAS). I believe you can lose your salvation, but the Holy Spirit will keep on convicting. How long? I don't know. God knew I would finally give in! "

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"I" noticed you used the word "I" 22 times. You do not understand that the gospel of Christ is not about "I"/you, but what someone else did for you 2000 years ago- 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Your focus is on yourself and your performance, instead of the work of the Saviour, and His satisfactory(propitiation) sacrifice already accomplished for you.

Opinion and experience do not determine the truth, the word of God does.

Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with you "making God #1". He is "#1" independent of whether you "make" him that or not. He is LORD=master, controler, ruler, whether you acknowledge it or not. No one has made God "#1" except the Lord Jesus Christ.

[jmwhalen]

Dime Ministries, in answering your question,"John M. Whalen,

It is obvious to me that this doctrine is extremely important to you.

I have to wonder why...."

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This time a brief response:

1. Galatians 1:6-10:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."

I will oppose anyone that perverts the gospel of Christ, as a "servant of Christ".

2.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim. 2:3,4

This is God's desire.

In Christ,

John Whalen

[Born Again]

BTW- the church I used to attend is still dead with people living a life of mediocrite. I am now in a Spirit-Filled church that is free from "religion" and legalism! GOD IS AWESOME!

Not all in that church are living that life . I think you know which ones!

[godrulz]

Salvation involves giving up whatever the god in our life is and replacing it with the true God. cf. Rich Young Ruler...his god was money and he would not make Christ Lord.

Our ultimate intention is what is important. We can either live for Self or we can live for God. Lesser choices flow out of this. Unbelievers live for Self. Believers live for God and submit to the Lordship of Christ. Love relationships involve choice. Relationship is the essence of salvation. Salvation is in the realm of morals. Morals involve free will choice or there is no alternative, responsibility, or accountability.

When a believer forsakes God in a decisive act and returns to ultimately living for Self with no desire for God or even belief in God (there are former pastors who are now atheists), they cannot claim to be secure in salvation. Commitment to Christ is not a punctiliar event that confers immunity regardless of how ungodly you later become. Following Christ requires an ongoing relationship. Believers are absolutely secure in Christ. If a believer becomes an unbeliever at a later date, the security verses simply do not apply. Security is conditional on remaining a believer to the end. Degrees of sanctification or obedience involve subordinate choices, not the ultimate choice of living for God or Self=salvific.

[jmwhalen]

Godrulz writes:

"Salvation involves giving up whatever the god in our life is and replacing it with the true God. cf. Rich Young Ruler...his god was money and he would not make Christ Lord.

Our ultimate intention is what is important. We can either live for Self or we can live for God. Lesser choices flow out of this. Unbelievers live for Self. Believers live for God and submit to the Lordship of Christ. Love relationships involve choice. Relationship is the essence of salvation. Salvation is in the realm of morals. Morals involve free will choice or there is no alternative, responsibility, or accountability.

When a believer forsakes God in a decisive act and returns to ultimately living for Self with no desire for God or even belief in God (there are former pastors who are now atheists), they cannot claim to be secure in salvation. Commitment to Christ is not a punctiliar event that confers immunity regardless of how ungodly you later become. Following Christ requires an ongoing relationship. Believers are absolutely secure in Christ. If a believer becomes an unbeliever at a later date, the security verses simply do not apply. Security is conditional on remaining a believer to the end. Degrees of sanctification or obedience involve subordinate choices, not the ultimate choice of living for God or Self"

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No, salvation is not about you giving God anything-He needs nothing from you and me. It "is about" the Lord Jesus Christ giving you eternal life by Him giving up His life, and God the Father accepting that sacrifice by blood as a satisfactory payment for the wages of sin, which is death. Please stop trying to obtain slvation passages from Mt., Mark, Luke, John-this is still OT ground. Read Romans through Philemon for doctrine on salvatuon.

You, sir, cannot make Jesus Lord, even if you tried. God the Father made Him Lord(owner, master-Acts 2:36) He is Lord regardless of your ackowledgment or not. Making Him Lord, if you mean "master, owner" is SERVICE, not salvation. Have you ever hired a boss? Ridiculous!

"Our ultimate intention is what is important." How much "intention" is required to be saved? 58%? 67%? Is 98.35678% enough?

"Believers submit to the Lordship of Christ"- Are you saying acknowledging He is God, or Lordship in the sense of "owner, master". If it is the latter, how much "submission' is required to be saved?

"Commitment to Christ is not a punctiliar event that confers immunity regardless of how ungodly you later become. Following Christ requires an ongoing relationship....."

Once again, you confuse SERVICE("commitment"/"following Christ") = our walk/sanctification with SONSHIP/salvation, and thus you are making some "upfront" commitment as a condition of salvation. You are thus promoting a works-based, perforrmance-based method of obtaining acceptance by God. You are perverting the gospel of Christ.

Tell me, sir, are you 100% "living for God"? Are you 100% committed? Is the Lord Jesus Christ the "Lord" over every area of your life?

"Believers are absolutely secure in Christ. If a believer becomes an unbeliever at a later date, the security verses simply do not apply. Security is conditional on remaining a believer to the end...."

This is nonsensical. "In Christ, out of Christ, In Christ, out of Christ........." Absolutely secure and then security verses do not apply? You really need to "retool" your thinking process. Better yet, please provide scripture instead of your opinion. "Remaining a believer to the end"-these passages do not deal with members of the Body of Christ-they are directed to Jews and Christ-rejecting Gentiles during the time of judgmemt of the Great Tribulation.

In Christ,

John Whalen