salvation is a process

[Thaddaeus]

OneLight,

Salvation is a gift from God. Maturity in Him is the process, not salvation. If we are to be His for His will, we have to allow Him to finish any work in us that His has to do in order for us to be a vessel fit for Him to use.

Maturity in Him is the salvation of ones soul. It has nothing to do with the salvation of mankind from the fall.

the OP was very clear on what was being referenced. It is speaking about our individual salvation. That is a process, a continuing journey of faithfulness and growth/maturity. The work is a mutual work between man and God. We were created to be in union and communion with God freely. We can join freely, and we can leave freely. God does not compel any man, nor can Satan, for that matter, compel any man against his will. It is why there will be judgement and every man will give an account of what he has done.

[irishcowboy]

Salvation is instant, growth in Christ is a process.....

mike

[OneLight]

OneLight,

Salvation is a gift from God. Maturity in Him is the process, not salvation. If we are to be His for His will, we have to allow Him to finish any work in us that His has to do in order for us to be a vessel fit for Him to use.

Maturity in Him is the salvation of ones soul. It has nothing to do with the salvation of mankind from the fall.

the OP was very clear on what was being referenced. It is speaking about our individual salvation. That is a process, a continuing journey of faithfulness and growth/maturity. The work is a mutual work between man and God. We were created to be in union and communion with God freely. We can join freely, and we can leave freely. God does not compel any man, nor can Satan, for that matter, compel any man against his will. It is why there will be judgement and every man will give an account of what he has done.

You may hold to this, but His word tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

As Mike said, "Salvation is instant, growth in Christ is a process....."

[Guest shiloh357]

i think maybe there is a break down in communication. im not saying you are saved by works or denying the cross.

I don't think anyone took you to mean that at all. Most of us are pretty reasonable and I think you made your points very well.

there is a scripture that when you translate it back to greek roots literally reads you have been-being saved.(why i titled it salvation is a process) idk where it is i will look and then come back and post it later.

I do know that there is a verse that tells us to "be-being" filled with the Spirit as an ongoing process. The idea is to be continuously filled (controlled) by the Spirit on daily basis.

perhaps the title for my post wasnt the best. i couldnt think of anything better to type for it. originaly the post was made in calvinist vs. arm.... whatever you believe.

Your title is accurate. There is process occuring within salvation. Salvation occurs in a three-fold stage. Justifcation, Sanctification and Glorification. We are justified the moment we are saved. That occurs ONE time. It is a legal declaration which credits righteousness to our account. Right now, we are in the process of sanctification, the daily deliverance of old habits, sins, old desires, etc. It is the process of being conformed into the image of Christ. We are awaiting glorification, the day when we receive our glorified bodies.

the purpose was for this post was importance of obedience. and how you can get out from under Gods grace and how thats not good. basicly to speak to the hearts and consiousness of those not serious about thier salvation. people playing with sin.

in regards to works there is also a scripture that says work out your own salvation with fear and trembeling. which shows it is a process. what do i mean? im saying that all we can do is obey. God did/does the rest.

The verse you cite about fear and trembling:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(Philippians 2:12)

This verse is talking about working out (putting on display, making a public demonstration) your salvation.

i am truely sorry if i have mislead you on what im trying to say.

I think you communicated yourself quite well.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. this is talking about doing good to earn salvation. im talking about doing good(obedience) because if you dont obey you fall in sin and you become spiritualy dead. the fellowship between God and us stops.

I don't know that I would go far as to say you become spiritually "dead" but your conscience can become seared and you lose sensitivity to God's presence. I would agree that sin causes to lose fellowship with God. I would not say that it causes us to lose salvation itself, though.

[Thaddaeus]

OneLight,

You may hold to this, but His word tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

As Mike said, "Salvation is instant, growth in Christ is a process....."

this text does not say what you think it says. It is speaking of two distinct aspects of salvation in the context of this verse. Vs 5 is speaking of mankind. We, the world, is saved by Grace. Nothing is excepted in the salvation of the world from the fall, from death to be specific.

For believers who are part of mankind, when we believe, we are going to be saved through our faith. Faith justifies us to God.

As far as being instant, we possess it instantly. But there is no guarantee that you will keep it since it depends on your faith. We are not saved apart from our faith. That is why when scripture is speaking of losing faith, it means one has also lost salvation. Losing faith is placing yourself outside of Christ. Unless you have another way that you know of in scripture by which we are saved then you might have a point.

Salvation is living IN Christ, not outside of Him. There is no such thing as living In Him and being in sin at the same time.

[deut31:12]

Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a gift from God, not something we work for. The gift is free, because Jesus paid the price on the cross.

In His Love,

OneLight

Today, Eph 2:8,9 is being used incorrectly so many times to both trump over and countermand man's need for obedience to God's words. That is because it is being understood and applied incorrectly. When you read these verses you must needs continue to the 10th verse.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:10

The works spoken of in Eph 2:8,9 are referring to that there is nothing that man did, or could have done, to bring Jesus here to die on the cross for our sins and open a way to reconcile us back to God, but we are still commanded to walk in good works which is nothing more than our obedience to the gospel of Christ.

So, our reconciliation back to God is a free gift, but our walk with God is still mandated by walking in good works through our obedience.

Remember, every time you read Eph. 2:8,9 also read verse 10 and this verse:

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. - Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

What are the commandments of God in the New Testament?

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:8-10

The works that we were ordained to walk in are the keeping of the commandments.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. - 1 John 2:3-6

I agree that the doing of the works doesn't save us and doesn't earn our salvation, but we are commanded to walk in the ordained works by keeping the commandments or we don't have God or Christ.

[OneLight]

OneLight,

You may hold to this, but His word tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

As Mike said, "Salvation is instant, growth in Christ is a process....."

this text does not say what you think it says. It is speaking of two distinct aspects of salvation in the context of this verse. Vs 5 is speaking of mankind. We, the world, is saved by Grace. Nothing is excepted in the salvation of the world from the fall, from death to be specific.

For believers who are part of mankind, when we believe, we are going to be saved through our faith. Faith justifies us to God.

As far as being instant, we possess it instantly. But there is no guarantee that you will keep it since it depends on your faith. We are not saved apart from our faith. That is why when scripture is speaking of losing faith, it means one has also lost salvation. Losing faith is placing yourself outside of Christ. Unless you have another way that you know of in scripture by which we are saved then you might have a point.

Salvation is living IN Christ, not outside of Him. There is no such thing as living In Him and being in sin at the same time.

A true believer will live in Christ. They may stumble, and fall, from time to time, but they, if they keep their faith in God, are still His. We, being human, will never know what is in a persons heart. Only God can know, and He will judge accordingly. I am sure that when I reach glory, there will be some there that I will wonder how did they make it, and then there will be those missing that I will wonder where they are. Only God knows the heart, my friend. I also believe that there are some that claim to be Christians that are not. Who are they??? I may never know in this life. These are the ones who I will wonder where they are ...

[OneLight]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:10

I posted the verses that pertained to a free salvation. Yes, if we walk in Him, laying down our lives daily so He can live in and through us, works will be there. As you mentioned, works do not save. They are the result of being in Him.

[Guest shiloh357]

Today, Eph 2:8,9 is being used incorrectly so many times to both trump over and countermand man's need for obedience to God's words.

I would be careful making so many broad generalizations unless you can prove them.

[Guest shiloh357]

As far as being instant, we possess it instantly. But there is no guarantee that you will keep it since it depends on your faith. We are not saved apart from our faith. That is why when scripture is speaking of losing faith, it means one has also lost salvation. Losing faith is placing yourself outside of Christ. Unless you have another way that you know of in scripture by which we are saved then you might have a point.

That is not true. Salvation does not depend on your faith.

Your faith is not what keeps you saved. Your statement puts the responsibility for salvation on the person and not on Jesus. The Bible NEVER teaches that salvation depends upon our faith. You making a subtle perversion of the text.

The Bible says that with the heart man believeth unto righteousness. It is by faith that we take hold of God's promise of his gift of grace.

Jesus is the one who keeps us saved and He does so by fulfiilling the righteousness of the Law in us. God and alone is responsible for saving us and keeping us saved.

If you think you play any role in the maintenance or security of your salvation, you are sorely mistaken. Salvatino is not loste today, regained tomorrow, lost the next day and so forth. That is just theological myth.