Sinlessness

[His son]

His son, I never argue with God or even doubt His word, and if He says it's possible for man to live in this world without sin, well then I must have missed it somehow, so I would be grateful if you could tell me where I can find that passage in the Word.

in Christ,

eric.

John 14:12

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(KJV)

John 14:21

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(KJV)

John 17:21

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(KJV)

John 17:23

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

(KJV)

John 20:21

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

(KJV)

2 Cor 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.(KJV)

Eph 4:11-13

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(KJV)

Col 2:9-10

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

(KJV)

1 Pet 4:1-2

1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

(KJV)

1 Pet 5:10

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

(KJV)

2 Pet 3:11

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

(KJV)

This is some there are more.

[Guest Called]

You are an awesome sister in Christ Keslc!

I however do not hold to "I sin often". I know I try to live my life in obedience, yes, I make mistakes, I stumble too, I am not perfect, I know the Lord convicts me when I am wrong and I ask my Fathers forgiveness.

I am in complete agreement with you on this. God Bless You!

Debbie

[BobTriez]

I however do not hold to "I sin often"

Often is a relative term. In relation to someone who claims they are now sinless - I do sin often. Compared to a career thief, I guess I don't sin very often....but I do sin. Remember the topic of this thread. I have not attacked anything unsaid nor have I made assumptions about anyone's personal walk with God. I have tried to maintain objectivity and not single anyone in particular out. But fact is, you do claim to belong to the group who claim they can now live their life without sinning. If you wish to retract your statement, that is fine. And you are either a sinner or you are not a sinner. If you even stumble "every once in awhile", that would disqualify you from being or living sinless. Could you perhaps be confused over which side you are on ? One little bitty sin is all it takes and I've yet to meet someone who has been able to live day in & day out without falling. It doesn't matter if you go a year between sins, the fact is, you will come up short of what God requires whether you realize it or not. It is because you, like me are a sinner by nature.

I'm not trying to hurt feelings, but I am trying to teach the truth & reality of our nature. That doesn't make it right ( by no means ), but if one claims to be sinless, then they deny the need to repent. If you claim to sin every great once-in-awhile, that's enough to disqualify you from being labeled sinless.

Which are you ? Please clarify...because I make my responses based on what people say - and people have said they can live sin free; which I simply do not believe one can do while living in sinful human flesh.

Blessings,

Bob

[eric]

His son, I never argue with God or even doubt His word, and if He says it's possible for man to live in this world without sin, well then I must have missed it somehow, so I would be grateful if you could tell me where I can find that passage in the Word.

in Christ,

eric.

John 14:12

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(KJV)

John 14:21

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(KJV)

John 17:21

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(KJV)

John 17:23

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

(KJV)

John 20:21

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

(KJV)

2 Cor 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.(KJV)

Eph 4:11-13

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(KJV)

Col 2:9-10

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

(KJV)

1 Pet 4:1-2

1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

(KJV)

1 Pet 5:10

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

(KJV)

2 Pet 3:11

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

(KJV)

This is some there are more.

Sorry,His son,nothing in those passages suggests in the slightest way that man can become without sin or sinless whilst he remains in his earthly fleshy body.John 17:23 only mentions the fact that they may be made be made perfect in one,

In a previoue post. I pointed out that IMO, perfection doesn't mean sinless.. or witouth sin. God said lets make man in our likeness and He did and He was pleased,because man was made in His likeness, he was perfect. Adam was a perfect man and he blew it, he sinned. So if Adam the perfect man sinned what chance have the rest of the fallen world .Sorry mate, unconvincing

cheers.

,

[Adstar]

Gary: I love the Lord with all my heart and am in awe and affection of Him...continually feeling intense gratitude of heart and spirit.

However, I am continually on my face before Him daily to acknowledge my lack.

I cannot think of a day when I could have done something more for Him or perhaps reacted in a way less than perfect.

God is perfect - but I am most definitely NOT!

I haven't met anybody who really was but some who seem to think they are. That's a bit stunning.

One thing that's occurred to me as a believer is that the longer we live, the more genuinely humble we become. We are more and more aware of our "smallness" and God's "bigness".

I feel so tiny and He seems to HUGE...I cannot even BEGIN to compare myself with the Lord Jesus' sinless perfection. I am in AWE of Him!

So, no .....for me, trying to emulate Jesus is a goal but heaven knows I fall pitifully short of being a reflection of Him....but we sure are making steady progress as time goes by.

She sure does have a way with words Shaddow. Doesn't she

Catz keep that light shining. Your faith strengthened even through great adversity is truly an inspiration to me :il: Of all the people on this board your contributions have been the most uplifting for me. I only hope i have half the courage you have shown if and when i need it in the future.

Your fruit is wonderful Sis

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Catsmeow]

Kelsc: You a bit sensitive aren't you? I wasn't addressing you or anyone else...just sharing my thoughts in general.

You must have thought I was addressing you but I wasn't.

Like I said before, I think we're probably all in agreement we just express ourselves a bit differently.

Lighten up, Kelsc.....we're just sharing ideas. We all have our own way of seeing things.

You can't let the exchanging of thoughts or perspectives upset you or to take it personally. It's a message board and we're just expressing views.

As long as we're all believers in Christ, we have what's important in common...Jesus.

[Catsmeow]

Thanks, Adstar...what you found refreshing apparently upset someone else. I'm not real sure why...

I was just being me...and that's how I feel with God...."small". Very small.

He seems so huge and magnificent...and I feel like an amoeba or something.

I'm not sure how that was taken in an offensive way...I've given up trying to figure out why some people are so easily upset over things. :laugh:

[followerofjesus]

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even

we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law

shall no flesh be justified. 17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the

minister of sin? God forbid. 18For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19For I through the law am dead

to the law, that I might live unto God. 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now

live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if

righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

[Khristeeanos]

Last time I read 1 John 2:6, it still said this:

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

[keslc]

Which are you ? Please clarify...because I make my responses based on what people say - and people have said they can live sin free; which I simply do not believe one can do while living in sinful human flesh.

Blessings,

Bob

My stance this entire thread has been that I believe people do not HAVE to sin. Do they? Sure, myself included, I was just trying to only add that we are not in bondage to sin once Jesus sets us free. I agree with you that people (myself included) do sin and that repentance in needed for sure! I don't think I have said anything other than that. It just felt like rather than listening to my point (which was actually that I agreed with your position that sin should not be denied or ignored or gone unforgiven, I was just adding the fact that nobody "has" to commit it either) you were looking for ways to make your "argument" and jumping to conclusions about me.

Cats,

Kelsc: You a bit sensitive aren't you? I wasn't addressing you or anyone else...just sharing my thoughts in general.

You must have thought I was addressing you but I wasn't.

Edited June 2, 2004 by keslc