Sinlessness

[keslc]

The fact that she stated "she has not sinned" has made her a sinner because God says all have sinned so she's calling God a liar. She's acting in rebellion against Him, she hasn't an accurate view of herself and it also shows pride. I don't mean to be so harsh but unless you pray about this and ask God to grant you a true understanding of this subject, then He will deal much more harshly with you. I'm not pointing fingers believe me, we are all learning here - but think about what you're implying......that you are sinless, perfect, like God. You have elevated yourself above all man deeming yourself equal to God. You are denying the battle between flesh and spirit. You no longer need Christ's forgiveness because you don't sin supposedly. That also means you are not confessing anything to Him because in your mind yoiu don't sin. Can't you see how dangerous this is? Please seek God on this.

Wow, you just proceeded to tell me how I think, how I act and how I live. That is very harsh! Amazing! I didn't say I never sin, I did say I hadn't sinned that day, but I said I had in the past week. I DID NOT SAY I WAS SINLESS,PERFECT OR LIKE GOD! You just put those words in my mouth.

You have elevated yourself above all man deeming yourself equal to God

Because someone says they believe they can live a holy life, doesn't mean they are saying they are like God. God NEVER sinned, we all have, but it doesn't mean we have to keep sinning. God wants us to strive to be holy and perfect, why else would he have told us to? I really don't think God wants us to sin, it has been made perfectly clear throughout the whole Bible.

BTW, I have sought God on this and many other things. You just started spouting off stuff with no information. I am sure God wants us to live a pitiful little Christian existence where we can't overcome this world. Please! For the record, I am not proud, a liar nor do I live in rebellion. I am completely submitted to God and and humbled by his grace and mercy. I do strive everyday to be just like Jesus, I guess some consider that rebellion.

Everyone acts like they have no choice, that they can't help but sin. Man, get real! Follow Christ completely, give your all to him, throw out anything of this world, get filled with the Holy Ghost, live in a continual state of prayer, die to self, carry your cross and go out and fulfill the great commission! Christians now accept sin and even become used to it and I refuse to do that. I will strive to not sin until the day I die and through Gods grace and power that lives in me, I hope I can stand in front of him one day and not be ashamed of how I lived.

This may have come across rudely, but I get defensive when people start judging me with no logical basis. Lets agree to disagree.

Debbie

I'm with you here, too! I couldn't believe what I was reading for a bit there! I was like, "nobody, said, 'I'm perfect! I've never sinned! I'm like God" I think we all agree that each one of us has sinned, no doubt. However, I agree with you that we cannot walk around and say, "well, I'm not perfect, so I guess I'll just go about my business and it's all good because I can't help myself" type of attitude, which some people (not nessacarily here) have. It's important to remember 1 Corinthians 10:13 too.

[keslc]

The confusion here lies in whether you can live a holy life on your own merit or if you are utterly and literally dependent upon Christ Jesus to get you through each and every day.

Also, would you say you NEVER get angry, upset or irritated, despite illness, traffic, or stress?

It depends on whether we're talking about "big sins" like homosexuality, fornication, theft, gossip, murder, et al...

Or...sins of ommission, (where you fail to do all that God calls you to do) or you lose your temper or act unkindly or miss an opportunity to witness, etc.

I honestly don't know anyone who's walk is flawless.

Sinlessness is a big, big word...and the only shoes big enough for them is Jesus.

I honestly believe that the more a believer matures, the MORE they realize how far we fall short of God's perfection and sinlessness.

Can we live holy lives? Yes. I agree with that.

Can we be totally sinless? Well, do you have children? Are they perfect? Be honest.

Part of our humanity is our flesh and I hope everyone knows that sin in inherent in our nature but we can have victory ONLY IN CHRIST...and not of our own doing.

If you say you are made perfect in CHRIST, I can say, "Amen!" to that.

If you are perfect in and of your own doing, I'd say you need pastoral council.

Absolutely, only through Christ! I think we are agreeing here actually, just getting wording confusion! Know what I mean?

Edited May 26, 2004 by keslc

[Guest Called]

The confusion here lies in whether you can live a holy life on your own merit or if you are utterly and literally dependent upon Christ Jesus to get you through each and every day.

I don't think any of us said we can do it on our own, of course we are dependent on Jesus.

Also, would you say you NEVER get angry, upset or irritated, despite illness, traffic, or stress?

Being upset or irritated is not a sin(depending on your attituted behind it). Jesus got upset and irritated. I can say that God had delivered me from anger, I used to get road rage and just get mad, now I don't. I might slip up on occasion, but normally no, I don't get angry. People act the way they do cause of satan, so I just get angry, upset and irritated at the devil. BTW- Jesus got angry too.

It depends on whether we're talking about "big sins" like homosexuality, fornication, theft, gossip, murder, et al...

Sin is sin is sin, it is all the same(except the unforgivable sin)

I will repeat what I said in the other thread. It is in Hebrews 10:14, "For by that one offering he perfected forever all those whom he is making holy."

We have been made perfect, yet we are being made holy. Through His death and resurrection. Christ, once for all, made his believers perfect in God's sight. At the same time He is making them holy (progressively cleansed, set apart for his special use) in their daily pilgrimage here.

Did you know that the word holy means spiritually perfect? God is making me spiritually perfect.

I don't understand why some people get defensive (I am not saying you) in regards to this. What is wrong with trying to not sin and making a conscious effort and decision to not sin?

[Catsmeow]

No, we're in agreement exactly...but worded it a little different.

I worry about people who are legalistic...BTW, I was one of "those" some years back and God had to show me what was actually happening at a heart level.

I wanted so much to be perfect that it was self-defeating. I have found genuine love of the Lord and true desire to please and obey Him is the key to successful living.

The Pharisees were so caught up in the letter of the Law and sometimes I'm afraid new beleivers get so caught up in that, (as I once did). I was trying so hard to be perfect.

Now, I don't have to try to be perfect. I have found perfection in just loving Jesus and holding His hand through life. He guides and directs and I desire, by nature, to respond.

We all fall short of perfection, however...and there's been so many kids raised in homes where they were held up to some standard that Jesus referred to as, "Heavy burdens heaped upon them"....

The Pharisees were so caught up in the "Letter" of the Law, in their pursuit of perfection, they missed the "heart" of the law, which is mercy and love.

I think we're probably saying the same things...actually.

[Guest Called]

I think we all agree that each one of us has sinned, no doubt. However, I agree with you that we cannot walk around and say, "well, I'm not perfect, so I guess I'll just go about my business and it's all good because I can't help myself" type of attitude, which some people (not nessacarily here) have. It's important to remember 1 Corinthians 10:13 too.

That is exactly what I am trying to say!

I wanted so much to be perfect that it was self-defeating. I have found genuine love of the Lord and true desire to please and obey Him is the key to successful living.

The Pharisees were so caught up in the letter of the Law and sometimes I'm afraid new beleivers get so caught up in that, (as I once did). I was trying so hard to be perfect.

I loathe legalism, that is the strongest word I could think of and I agree with you here. Some people do just follow the law and forget grace,love and mercy.

I have actually been saved for 25 years (I am 30). I used to believe on the other side of the argument for example I would say "I just can't help it", "well, even Paul said he doesn't do what he wants to do and does do what he hates" and "there is none righteous", blah, blah, blah....One day the Holy Spirit "smacked" me and said listen to yourself! I got a revelation of who I am in Christ and I am more than a conqueror and I can do ALL things THROUGH Christ and I got a revelation of 1 Corinthians 10:13. I can control my mind and I can submit to God and the devil will flee. I can't stand lukewarm Christianity (I guess cause I was like that for a while), so that is why I get passionate about this.

[Guest Called]

I wanted to add one more verse!

Romans 12:1-2,

Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.

[ted]

Boy, I haven't seen this many posts used to agree in a long time!

t.

[Guest Called]

Boy, I haven't seen this many posts used to agree in a long time!

[AllforJesustheLord]

1 John 1:8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Why don't we get the full understanding of this scripture, we know we sin, but when we die with Christ, we no longer live to do the works of righteousness, thus we are not alive, and Christ is the only living one on the inside of us, thus how do we walk like Christ, and many scriptures say in 1 John that we must otherwise we are of the devil, we let Christ do His works through us, so that we are not there anymore, we are dead. Thus if we are dead we can not sin, because we are not there to sin, thus if I say I have fellowship with Christ I must realize I must walk like Christ, and if I walk like Christ am I sinning no, why by grace(favor), from God I am justified, and if I do not sin anymore, how can I say I sin. Thus if we have sin, then those scriptures are for us, but if we do not sin, why would I lie, and say I am sinning, I could say, I am a sinner, why because in and of myself, all I have is sin, but if I am not staying in, and of myself, but I become One with Christ, and One with The Father, how can I say I sin anymore, if I am no longer living to sin. The context of those scriptures are for sinners, and those who sin are sinners, so we can see in that context 1 John 1:8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now I still sin, so I can not say I do not have sin, but I trust God He will redeem me, and help me to become a perfect man, as is said must happen to some man, until we come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, the perfect man, that is how the scripture I think is said, you can look it up, the scripture I think is in Ephesians, near the understanding of God giving apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, and evangelists, each having the purpose to present everyone perfect in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Edited May 26, 2004 by AllforJesustheLord

[Guest Called]

Ephesians 4:12