Healing

[Guest shiloh357]

God does allow babies to be born with ills because we live on a cursed world. When Adam fell the world became cursed, so we are born a cursed people into a cursed world, but Jesus came and broke that curse, restoring us back into fellowship with our Father and ALL He has promised us. We accept Christ we accept His promises into our lives. I don't have to settle for the curses of this world. There are over ten thousand promises in the Word that I can claim as mine as a co-inheriter with Christ. Healing is one of them. How is God's children walking around with sickness and lack lifting up His name? We are to rule and reign as kings and priest. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is with in us, that means we have Royal dominion with in us. We are to be the head and not the tail. If I am not living in the promises that God has promised me, I am not living in royal dominion and I am not the head.

Hmmmm......I thought only Christ was the head of the Body.

I'm sure your not purposly misinterpreting what I meant. Christ is the head of the church.

I'm not purposefully misinterpreting, I just don't know what you mean by "We are to be the head not the tail."

When Tha Bible says we are the head & not the tail Obove onley & not beneath,Dueteronomy 28:13.

God means that we should be above circumstances, That means we should have the victory over them.

Deuteronomy 28 is written to the nation of Israel, and is never applied to the church. Furthermore, Deuteronomy 28 the blessings it contains are conditional upon obedience to the law.

[1]The new testament counterpart is, More than conquerors, overcomers, alway triumphant, victorious.

Doesn't that sound like, 2The head & not the tail, above only".

[2] If Deuteronomy was only for the nation of Israel, Why did Paul link it to the Church.

Paul didn't link it to the Church. You have provided no substantive evidence that is linked to the church. Furthermore, if it was understood to be for the church, the same blessings would have been repeated to the Church.

Thirdly, those blessings were conditional upon Israel's obedience to the Law of Moses. You want the blessings but reject the law those blessings were coniditional upon. It is like a child who wants the chocolate cake, but doesn't want to do his chores to earn the cake.

The new testament counterpart is, More than conquerors, overcomers, alway triumphant, victorious.

Compare that with Paul's ministry.

Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

(2 Corinthians 11:23-28)

By the standards you are setting, Paul didn't look very victorious all of the time.

[nebula]

Healings area lot more common in places like India, Africa, South America . . . you know, places where the pervading society has a firm belief in the supernatural.

[BlindSeeker]

Healings area lot more common in places like India, Africa, South America . . . you know, places where the pervading society has a firm belief in the supernatural.

Hello Sister Nebula,

I haven't heard this before . . . is there any sound documentation for this?

This sounds a bit off because of my convictions of belief in one's hearing the peaching of the pure word of God as the key to confirmation with signs and wonders versus one's beliefs in "the supernatural."

Maybe I not quite understanding what you are sharing.

Certainly, anyone believing in a god would have a belief in "the supernatural."

[nebula]

I'll put it this way, a few semesters ago I was talking with a lab aid, also a Christian, who is from Africa. He shared with me how spiritual manifestations are a normal occurrence where he comes from. It's not unusual to see openly demon-possessed people running down the street for instance. I'm not recalling the other things he mentioned, but stuff happens constantly there that we in our society brush off as fantasy. He marveled at just how unbelieving we Christians in America don't take such things seriously.

Sure we "believe" in the supernatural, but we have it locked in some far off box, and not something that is just as real the physical world.

As for documentation, all I can say is that either the testimonies I have heard from missionaries are nothing but fish stories, or large numbers of people they prayed over for healing were indeed healed while in these other countries.

Whom should I believe - the skeptic who doesn't know the people testifying, or the people themselves whom I do know personally and have never found them to be liers and deceivers?

[truthbringer]

God does allow babies to be born with ills because we live on a cursed world. When Adam fell the world became cursed, so we are born a cursed people into a cursed world, but Jesus came and broke that curse, restoring us back into fellowship with our Father and ALL He has promised us. We accept Christ we accept His promises into our lives. I don't have to settle for the curses of this world. There are over ten thousand promises in the Word that I can claim as mine as a co-inheriter with Christ. Healing is one of them. How is God's children walking around with sickness and lack lifting up His name? We are to rule and reign as kings and priest. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is with in us, that means we have Royal dominion with in us. We are to be the head and not the tail. If I am not living in the promises that God has promised me, I am not living in royal dominion and I am not the head.

Hmmmm......I thought only Christ was the head of the Body.

I'm sure your not purposly misinterpreting what I meant. Christ is the head of the church.

I'm not purposefully misinterpreting, I just don't know what you mean by "We are to be the head not the tail."

When Tha Bible says we are the head & not the tail Obove onley & not beneath,Dueteronomy 28:13.

God means that we should be above circumstances, That means we should have the victory over them.

Deuteronomy 28 is written to the nation of Israel, and is never applied to the church. Furthermore, Deuteronomy 28 the blessings it contains are conditional upon obedience to the law.

[1]The new testament counterpart is, More than conquerors, overcomers, alway triumphant, victorious.

Doesn't that sound like, 2The head & not the tail, above only".

[2] If Deuteronomy was only for the nation of Israel, Why did Paul link it to the Church.

Paul didn't link it to the Church. You have provided no substantive evidence that is linked to the church. Furthermore, if it was understood to be for the church, the same blessings would have been repeated to the Church.

Thirdly, those blessings were conditional upon Israel's obedience to the Law of Moses. You want the blessings but reject the law those blessings were coniditional upon. It is like a child who wants the chocolate cake, but doesn't want to do his chores to earn the cake.

The new testament counterpart is, More than conquerors, overcomers, alway triumphant, victorious.

Compare that with Paul's ministry.

Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

(2 Corinthians 11:23-28)

By the standards you are setting, Paul didn't look very victorious all of the time.

[1] Paul does link Deut, to the Church.

[2] The blessings are in the Church.

[3] If God said, "We are more than conquerors, victorious and triumphant" and overcomers. I believe what God said.

[4] I noticed that you didn't mention Paul's deliverence. V 32--33. .

Edited September 2, 2008 by truthbringer

[BlindSeeker]

I'll put it this way, a few semesters ago I was talking with a lab aid, also a Christian, who is from Africa. He shared with me how spiritual manifestations are a normal occurrence where he comes from. It's not unusual to see openly demon-possessed people running down the street for instance. I'm not recalling the other things he mentioned, but stuff happens constantly there that we in our society brush off as fantasy. He marveled at just how unbelieving we Christians in America don't take such things seriously.

Sure we "believe" in the supernatural, but we have it locked in some far off box, and not something that is just as real the physical world.

As for documentation, all I can say is that either the testimonies I have heard from missionaries are nothing but fish stories, or large numbers of people they prayed over for healing were indeed healed while in these other countries.

Whom should I believe - the skeptic who doesn't know the people testifying, or the people themselves whom I do know personally and have never found them to be liers and deceivers?

Thanks for the reply Nebula, I will accept the info on your own credibility. . . (even though there weren't any amazing cosmic photos).

[Guest shiloh357]

God does allow babies to be born with ills because we live on a cursed world. When Adam fell the world became cursed, so we are born a cursed people into a cursed world, but Jesus came and broke that curse, restoring us back into fellowship with our Father and ALL He has promised us. We accept Christ we accept His promises into our lives. I don't have to settle for the curses of this world. There are over ten thousand promises in the Word that I can claim as mine as a co-inheriter with Christ. Healing is one of them. How is God's children walking around with sickness and lack lifting up His name? We are to rule and reign as kings and priest. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is with in us, that means we have Royal dominion with in us. We are to be the head and not the tail. If I am not living in the promises that God has promised me, I am not living in royal dominion and I am not the head.

Hmmmm......I thought only Christ was the head of the Body.

I'm sure your not purposly misinterpreting what I meant. Christ is the head of the church.

I'm not purposefully misinterpreting, I just don't know what you mean by "We are to be the head not the tail."

When Tha Bible says we are the head & not the tail Obove onley & not beneath,Dueteronomy 28:13.

God means that we should be above circumstances, That means we should have the victory over them.

Deuteronomy 28 is written to the nation of Israel, and is never applied to the church. Furthermore, Deuteronomy 28 the blessings it contains are conditional upon obedience to the law.

[1]The new testament counterpart is, More than conquerors, overcomers, alway triumphant, victorious.

Doesn't that sound like, 2The head & not the tail, above only".

[2] If Deuteronomy was only for the nation of Israel, Why did Paul link it to the Church.

Paul didn't link it to the Church. You have provided no substantive evidence that is linked to the church. Furthermore, if it was understood to be for the church, the same blessings would have been repeated to the Church.

Thirdly, those blessings were conditional upon Israel's obedience to the Law of Moses. You want the blessings but reject the law those blessings were coniditional upon. It is like a child who wants the chocolate cake, but doesn't want to do his chores to earn the cake.

The new testament counterpart is, More than conquerors, overcomers, alway triumphant, victorious.

Compare that with Paul's ministry.

Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

(2 Corinthians 11:23-28)

By the standards you are setting, Paul didn't look very victorious all of the time.

[1] Paul does link Deut, to the Church.

[2] The blessings are in the Church.

[3] If God said, "We are more than conquerors, victorious and triumphant" and overcomers. I believe what God said.

[4] I noticed that you didn't mention Paul's deliverence. V 32--33. .

1. You have not demonstrated that Paul linked it to the church. Please site where Deut. 28:1-14 is directly quoted by Paul and applied to the church. If you cannot produce that, you are proven wrong.

2. The blessings that God promised Israel are not in the Church. The Church is not Israel. The Church and Israel are separate entities in the Bible.

3. I believe God too, but being more than conquerers is not the same as the earthly blessings God gave to Israel.

4. The reason I didn't mention that is simpy to highlight the point that according to people like you, Paul, if he had the faith, wouuld not have been poor, in prison, starving, naked and cold, in the first place. Paul's ministry and what he suffered stands in stark contradiction to the what people like Hinn say should typify Christians.

5. What God promised to Israel, belongs to Israel. What God says is for the church is for the church. They are two completely different groups with their own blessings. They don't cross over.

[stacey c]

That's good Shilo, "people like us." You mean people who take the whole Word and don't disect the Word to the point that it's of almost no relevance to us today. Remember it's not just the logos but the Rhema that's life changing. No one ever said there would never be trials and tribulations. It's the trying of our faith that brings us the power of God in our lives. It's my standing by faith during lack that I know my God will bless me, thru sickness my healing is just around the corner, thru my sorrow my joy comes in the morning. You may be content with less than because you don't believe in victorious living, but I will hold fast to the promise that I am the daughter of the King of kings, and Lord of lords and He wants me to walk and live victoriously in this life. Be blessed Stacey c

[Guest shiloh357]

That's good Shilo, "people like us." You mean people who take the whole Word and don't disect the Word to the point that it's of almost no relevance to us today.

No, I was referring to those who are not able to honest about the fact that the most righteous heroes of the Bible didn't live up to the quality of life the WoF movement claims is supposed to be the Hallmark of "faith."

No one ever said there would never be trials and tribulations. It's the trying of our faith that brings us the power of God in our lives. It's my standing by faith during lack that I know my God will bless me, thru sickness my healing is just around the corner, thru my sorrow my joy comes in the morning. You may be content with less than because you don't believe in victorious living, but I will hold fast to the promise that I am the daughter of the King of kings, and Lord of lords and He wants me to walk and live victoriously in this life. Be blessed Stacey c

The problem here is that I have not said anything against healing or God's provision.

The issue I raised pertains to the irresponsible handling of the Scriptures that take what God said was for Israel and applying it to the church. I did not say God doesn't heal and that God does not prosper His children. My point is that is Israel is Israel. God did not make the promises to Israel that He made to the Church. I would remind you that the new covenant is a better covenant built upon better promises.

[BlindSeeker]

Shiloh,

Who is this church in the wilderness and why was it translated such?

Ac 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us