Is a belief in the Trinity Doctrine neccessary for salvation?

[BlindSeeker]

Though I am curious if the Oneness camp would saddle a similar yoke upon those who believe the Trinity.

In short.... Do Oneness believers, believe you can be saved without the adoption of a belief in God's nature that is like theirs? Or do they believe Christians who believe the Trinity to be hell bound?

Unfortunately that type of judgment does exist to some degree on both sides

[Mudcat]

Unfortunately that type of judgment does exist to some degree on both sides

Yeah..... I know a few Oneness Pentecostals who think I am going to crack hell wide open, if I don't change my ways.

Though, the Godhead is only one of a few issues, they have with me....oh well, I'll save that for another thread.

I appreciate the honest reply.

I suppose it was a loaded question.

I was just shamelessly trying to bait someone out into the open on the issue, so I could flail a bunch of ad hominem attacks at them. Everyone else seems to be having so much fun doing it, I just thought I'd give it a try

You spoiled all my fun.. BSeeker.

[BlindSeeker]

Unfortunately that type of judgment does exist to some degree on both sides

Yeah..... I know a few Oneness Pentecostals who think I am going to crack hell wide open, if I don't change my ways.

Though, the Godhead is only one of a few issues, they have with me....oh well, I'll save that for another thread.

I appreciate the honest reply.

I suppose it was a loaded question.

I was just shamelessly trying to bait someone out into the open on the issue, so I could flail a bunch of ad hominem attacks at them. Everyone else seems to be having so much fun doing it, I just thought I'd give it a try

You spoiled all my fun.. BSeeker.

That cracked me up LOL

Sorry . . . try it again and I won't answer . . .

[Ovedya]

[

Actually it is what the teach they teach Jesus is God the son that He is not the Father nor the holy spirit and the the 3 of them together make up 1 God. So if 3 parts make 1 whole and Jesus is only 1 of those 3 parts then He is 1/3 of the whole which would make Him 1/3 God.

you should study up more before you makes such silly statements.

just as Jesus was 100% God and 100% man

each member of the trinity is 100% God, not 1/3 of God.

stick to the facts and leave the strawmen at home

I know this is not want you claim to believe or what you think you believe, but it is what it is boiled down to when you claim the the Father is not the Son or H.S. and the Son is not the Father or H.S. and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or Son and they are all God but just 1 God. Regardless of what you claim to believe or even think you believe if this is what you believe, then you think Jesus is God the Son only therefore 1/3 of the whole. I know you reject that you believe this, but there is really no way of getting around it.

O by the way I have studied it, do you think I would reject the teaching of my youth and most of Christianity without being fully persuaded through much study.

For this to be true the idea then Jesus was only 50% God and 50% man. You cant have it both ways

Not true Because I do not Say that Jesus was Human to the exclusion of being God, or God to the exclusion of being human, but you say He was the Son to the exclusion of Him being the Father or the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was not a combination of God and man He was dually God and man at the same time.

Actually He is the mingling of God and man.

[BlindSeeker]

Jesus was not a combination of God and man He was dually God and man at the same time.

Actually He is the mingling of God and man.

Actually . . . (if I can say that too) it was God tabernacling in the flesh amongst men.

Here's and old thread of mine called The Invisible Man were we see the power of flour to help explain . . .

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Sep 15 2008, 06:57 AM)

The word Trinity does not appear, since it is a word that originates from the Greek. But Deut. 6:4 states that God is "echad." That is the word for one, but it is not used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple" in Deut. 6:4. It is the same word used in Genesis when it says that man and wife become "one" flesh. It is also used in reference to cluster of grapes.

The concept of the Trinity is there in the Hebrew "echad."

Sure looks like echad is used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple"

I did not say that it does not appear in the ordinal sense in other places. I am referring solely to Deut. 6:4

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Sep 15 2008, 05:57 AM)

The apostle John, in 1st, 2nd and 3rd John is constantly warning fellow Christians about those who deny certain things about Jesus such as the doctrine that Jesus came in the flesh or those who practice wickedness. He gives them ways to know who is truly in the faith or not.

It is not a matter of expecting anyone to jump through hoops. No one is expecting anyone to perform good enough to prove they are Christian, but there are simply some doctrines you cannot reject and but yet demand to be recognized as a "Christian."

Oneness believers do not deny that Jesus came in the flesh nor do they promotre wickedness. i think your examples are the wrongs ones to try and discredit the Oneness belief.

I realize that oneness believers are not teaching that. I was using those books to illustrate a principle. The piont is that there comes a point when we can no longer keep sacrificing doctrines for the sake of unity.

[Guest shiloh357]

I have a hard time excluding from the Church, nor can I (as I have no authority to do so), those that find a different way of trying to resolve this mystery.

They are not trying resolve it. They are denying it even exists. That is where the problem lies. Don't be so lavish with "grace" that you end up misstating their position.

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus is NEVER referred to God the Father or as being one and the same with the Father anywhere in the Bible. Jesus prayed to His Father in Heaven. Jesus gave up certain privileges and prerogatives when He came to earth. One of those prviliges was omnipresence.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one [<

[BlindSeeker]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Sep 15 2008, 06:57 AM)

The word Trinity does not appear, since it is a word that originates from the Greek. But Deut. 6:4 states that God is "echad." That is the word for one, but it is not used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple" in Deut. 6:4. It is the same word used in Genesis when it says that man and wife become "one" flesh. It is also used in reference to cluster of grapes.

The concept of the Trinity is there in the Hebrew "echad."

Sure looks like echad is used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple"

I did not say that it does not appear in the ordinal sense in other places. I am referring solely to Deut. 6:4

That is not the way Jesus appears to explain the verse. It seems clear He is interpreting it as stating there is one (ordinal sense) supreme in authority, The Lord

Mr 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.