Devil's Advocate?

[Scarletprayers]

I respect the original poster's opinion, but I am with you totally.

Let's not allow a religious teachings put us in bondage. We should be at liberty to teach and learn any good way the Lord leads us. The devil would like to saddle us down with so many do's, don'ts and religious ideas that we go insane and no longer effective in any way...

I think there is a danger here of finding a danger where there is no danger. Playing a devils advocate can from time to time be a prudent method of testing an argument, and without trying to put my head completely into the noose, it could be argued that some of the rhetoric employed by the L-rd falls loosely into this category...

I am thinking especially of the story of the woman at the well, where Jesus knows exactly the answer to the questions He asks her, but is eliciting a response so that He can demonstrate His nature (John 4) I think most people understand that nowadays it just means holding back on what you believe and presenting something that you might not hold to in an effort to draw out a response.

There is no power, and no spiritual significance to the term, 'devil's advocate', and you are not bringing any sort of honour to any devil by using it, anymore than eating 'devils on horseback' (prunes wrapped in bacon I think), or picking a devil-in-the-bush (a type of flower).

This is exactly what is being done, bondage to do's and dont's and loading people down so that there is no longer any freedom in Christ, but weighed down but someone elses opinion. The minute somehow goes beyond what the Bible tells us and add their own spin to it, satan has already won. This is what Jesus chastised the Pharisees and Sadducee's for, not for following the laws of Moses, but for all the "extra's" they had added to them so that they become only bondage and burdens to the people.

[Floatingaxe]

If one does NOT hold the view they are arguing with, it is indeed idle talk. We are discussing playing "devil's advocate", and not the term used for it. Calling it just an expression is trying to downplay the seriousness of indulging in it. If one cannot present one's beliefs using wise words out of the knowledge of a spiritual matter, but instead chooses the opposing side of the spiritual matter, where one's words have power as God says, what will Jesus Christ credit to your account?

The only person that would fear looking at an issue from a different perspective is one that lacks the wisdom to know that they might be wrong, or the inner strength to change when they are wrong.

Fear and confusion is what is sometimes birthed in the heart of one who performs this "game". It can result in a double minded man.

There is nothing wrong with contemplating another view pont, but to actually argue for it when you don;t believe it is counter-productive to one's own spiritual growth. I don;t believe gfor one minite that God is pleased with it. He gives us HIS wosdom and expects us to speak His word at all times. Good, productive and wise speech is what needs to be coming out of us. We need to be very careful about our confessions.

Psalm 49:3

For my words are wise,

and my thoughts are filled with insight.

Luke 6:45

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

James 1:5-8

If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Their loyalty is divided between God and the world, and they are unstable in everything they do.

[Floatingaxe]

If one does NOT hold the view they are arguing with, it is indeed idle talk. We are discussing playing "devil's advocate", and not the term used for it. Calling it just an expression is trying to downplay the seriousness of indulging in it. If one cannot present one's beliefs using wise words out of the knowledge of a spiritual matter, but instead chooses the opposing side of the spiritual matter, where one's words have power as God says, what will Jesus Christ credit to your account?

The only person that would fear looking at an issue from a different perspective is one that lacks the wisdom to know that they might be wrong, or the inner strength to change when they are wrong.

Fear and confusion is what is sometimes birthed in the heart of one who performs this "game". It can result in a double minded man.

There is nothing wrong with contemplating another view pont, but to actually argue for it when you don;t believe it is counter-productive to one's own spiritual growth. I don;t believe gfor one minite that God is pleased with it. He gives us HIS wosdom and expects us to speak His word at all times. Good, productive and wise speech is what needs to be coming out of us. We need to be very careful about our confessions.

Psalm 49:3

For my words are wise,

and my thoughts are filled with insight.

Luke 6:45

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

James 1:5-8

If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Their loyalty is divided between God and the world, and they are unstable in everything they do.

It seems you fear that you could some how be wrong.

The thread by Kross about loving your neighbor is a good example of where playing the devil's advoacte is productive and worhtwhile. I didnt agree with what he was saying about the passage, but then I played devil's advoacte and I looked at it from his point of view and it opened my eyes to his point and gave me a better understanding not only of his point, but of loving my neighbor. I learned from looking at it from the opposite point of view.

The only sure way to know if your arguemtn is sound is to have someone argue against it, otherwise you are fooling yoruself and are blind to true wisdom.

We should invite people to do this sort of thing, it is the only way to avoid "group think" and have the whole group going the wrong way.

So much for your insight! You couldn't be farther from the truth!

You are NOT describing "devil's advocate".

We have enough people in this world who will legitimately counter our beliefs from the Word of God, let alone BELIEVERS acting out contrary to the Word in a mock debate.

Did you actually read the OP 's link???

[Botz]

If one does NOT hold the view they are arguing with, it is indeed idle talk. We are discussing playing "devil's advocate", and not the term used for it. Calling it just an expression is trying to downplay the seriousness of indulging in it. If one cannot present one's beliefs using wise words out of the knowledge of a spiritual matter, but instead chooses the opposing side of the spiritual matter, where one's words have power as God says, what will Jesus Christ credit to your account?

The only person that would fear looking at an issue from a different perspective is one that lacks the wisdom to know that they might be wrong, or the inner strength to change when they are wrong.

Fear and confusion is what is sometimes birthed in the heart of one who performs this "game". It can result in a double minded man.

There is nothing wrong with contemplating another view pont, but to actually argue for it when you don;t believe it is counter-productive to one's own spiritual growth. I don;t believe gfor one minite that God is pleased with it. He gives us HIS wosdom and expects us to speak His word at all times. Good, productive and wise speech is what needs to be coming out of us. We need to be very careful about our confessions.

Psalm 49:3

For my words are wise,

and my thoughts are filled with insight.

Luke 6:45

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

James 1:5-8

If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Their loyalty is divided between God and the world, and they are unstable in everything they do.

It seems you fear that you could some how be wrong.

The thread by Kross about loving your neighbor is a good example of where playing the devil's advoacte is productive and worhtwhile. I didnt agree with what he was saying about the passage, but then I played devil's advoacte and I looked at it from his point of view and it opened my eyes to his point and gave me a better understanding not only of his point, but of loving my neighbor. I learned from looking at it from the opposite point of view.

The only sure way to know if your arguemtn is sound is to have someone argue against it, otherwise you are fooling yoruself and are blind to true wisdom.

We should invite people to do this sort of thing, it is the only way to avoid "group think" and have the whole group going the wrong way.

Yep agreed....last thing we need is a 'Christian Collective' run by self-appointed biblical thought police....there is already a 7th century religion that drinks deeply from that well. I believe we the 'body' were given the 'Holy Ghost' to lead us into all truth, and do not need to be shepherded down some blind alley by those who think they know what is best for us.

[Floatingaxe]

Yep agreed....last thing we need is a 'Christian Collective' run by self-appointed biblical thought police....there is already a 7th century religion that drinks deeply from that well. I believe we the 'body' were given the 'Holy Ghost' to lead us into all truth, and do not need to be shepherded down some blind alley by those who think they know what is best for us.

You are not led into all truth by arguing from Satan's viewpoint. THAT is what this thread is about.

John 16:13

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

The Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to counter His Word for us to know the truth. He doesn't tell us what Satan says, but what God says. We need to keep our minds and hearts open to what God says at all times.

[Floatingaxe]

You are not led into all truth by arguing from Satan's viewpoint. THAT is what this thread is about.

just because the word "devil" is in the expression, it does not mean that one is taking Satan's viewpoint.

do you even know what the term means?

Once again--please read the OP link. That will help...

[Floatingaxe]

Maybe legalism needs to be discussed, because what I see in that link is Godly wisdom...something that is sorely lacking in many Christians today.

[Botz]

Maybe legalism needs to be discussed, because what I see in that link is Godly wisdom...something that is sorely lacking in many Christians today.

Hmmm I agree that Godly wisdom is lacking in all of us at times, but seems endemic in large portions of the body for sustained periods...it is probably far more profitable to dispense with the pros and cons of a useful idiom and legitimate figure of speech (and thus prevent entering the 'idle word' syndrome), and rather to wonder for example, what on earth large portions of the body were doing running after the teachings of a complete rapscallion like Todd Bentley.... who might reasonable be termed..'The angels advocate.'

[Floatingaxe]

Maybe legalism needs to be discussed, because what I see in that link is Godly wisdom...something that is sorely lacking in many Christians today.

it is your legalism that sends you running from something because it has the word "devil" in it.

it is the lack of Christians today being willing to look at what they believe in an open minded way, the fear of looking at something from a different point of view that keeps us from that Godly wisdom and keeps us locked into our own opinions that we pass off as doctirne

Maybe yours does, preferring to call it something else. I am not legalistic. Stick to the topic, please.

I fear God, and hold to His wisdom and how He imparts it---through His Word, and His people by His Holy Spirit. God doesn't receive honour when we use our tongues to argue an ungodly argument to invoke truth. That brings confusion. Satan is the author of confusion.

[Floatingaxe]

That is not true. The topic is reasonable and good for us to heed.

It doesn't take one taking on the unbiblical view of a matter to know truth. "As iron sharpens iron" does not imply that one knows the truth but pretends not to in order to debate a matter. It speaks to the good practice of brothers in the Lord having fruitful discourse, bending and turning and growing in the Lord, benefiting from learning the truth from one another--not vigourously defending wrong for what seems like sport.