The Ephod of Aaron - The Breastplate of Judgment

[traveller]

Really interesting topic title, and I am in suspense waiting to spiritually ingest some more relevant teaching on the subject. I read what B.P cut and pasted, but do not necessarily agree with the functional description attributed to the Urim and Thummim...but I am intrigued and hungry to hear (further) incisive comment/explanation/insight/opinion.

Ditto what Botz said.

[Larry 2]

Really interesting topic title, and I am in suspense waiting to spiritually ingest some more relevant teaching on the subject. I read what B.P cut and pasted, but do not necessarily agree with the functional description attributed to the Urim and Thummim...but I am intrigued and hungry to hear (further) incisive comment/explanation/insight/opinion.

Could we say that after being judged by God we come out with different rewards?

(Exodus 28:8-10) To start with the 12 tribes worn on the Ephods were placed in order of birth

Rueben

Simeon

Levi

Judah

Dan

Naphtali

Gad

Asher

Issachar

Zebulon

Joseph

Benjamin

(Exodus 28:29) On the Breastplate of Judgment they are changed in order which are 10 full tribes and two half tribes; Joseph died and the tribe of Levi were priests and led the march by 2000 cubits and were not numbered with tribes of Israel.

Judah

Issachar

Zebulun

Rueben

Simeon

Gad

Ephrain

Manasseh

Benjamin

Dan

Asher

Naphtali

Below are some facts to help in any study you might want to do on this subject.

Now Joseph had died and that left the half tribe of Mannasseh, Joseph's eldest, and the half tribe of Ephraim (Gen. 46:40)

Also the tribe of Levi was not numbered with the tribes of Israel. (Joshua 3:3-4) Whn the Levites carried the "Ark of the Covenant," they led march by 2000 cubits or around 3000 ft.

(Numbers Chap. 2) When Israel were camped the tribes of:

(Numbers 10:14-27) This was also their marching order

Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun were on the east

Rueben, Simeon, and Gad were on the south

Ephrain, Mannasseh, and Benjamin were on the west

Dan, Asher, and Naptali were on the north

Levi was camped in the middle

[Botz]

Hi Larry...Let me get this right, and please correct me if I have got the wrong idea about what you are saying.

The significance of the differences between the names inscribed on the ephod and the breastplate was one of a transition in time, and thus a shuffle of the original order because significant changes had taken place including the death of Joseph, the addition of the two half-tribes, and the exclusion of the priestly Levites.

From this you deduce/infer the possibility that it reflects a change in reward after the judgment fires of G-d have burnt away our dross on our arrival into His Presence.

If this is the case, I cannot say I see anything one way or the other. I certainly don't see any immediate connection.

There could well be a spiritual application regarding both the ephod and the breastplate, and the variations of the names used, but that element has eluded me so far. Perhaps there is someone else out in pixel land who has some understanding/revelation that they might care to share.

[traveller]

I asked the question a long time ago concerning the placement of the names and the significance of the differences, but never received a satisfying reply.

[Botz]

I asked the question a long time ago concerning the placement of the names and the significance of the differences, but never received a satisfying reply.

Didn't your Mum tell you...'If at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again.'

Or in a biblical context think of the woman hammering on the unjust judge's door at night...she eventually got him downstairs in his pyjamas!

[Larry 2]

Hi Larry...Let me get this right, and please correct me if I have got the wrong idea about what you are saying.

The significance of the differences between the names inscribed on the ephod and the breastplate was one of a transition in time, and thus a shuffle of the original order because significant changes had taken place including the death of Joseph, the addition of the two half-tribes, and the exclusion of the priestly Levites.

From this you deduce/infer the possibility that it reflects a change in reward after the judgment fires of G-d have burnt away our dross on our arrival into His Presence.

If this is the case, I cannot say I see anything one way or the other. I certainly don't see any immediate connection.

There could well be a spiritual application regarding both the ephod and the breastplate, and the variations of the names used, but that element has eluded me so far. Perhaps there is someone else out in pixel land who has some understanding/revelation that they might care to share.

I can't say that Joseph's death was judgment, but the marching order was. When you put your leaders bearing their standards there is honor in that. In the following verses we see a hint at that.

Exodus 28:29 And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually.

Exodus 28:30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

Judgment doesn't alway have to do with annihilation, or chastizement, it can be as simple as obtaining God's best. God judges the Church in muct the same manner in Revelation Chapters 2 and 3. He finds fault with some and commends others. On the Breastplate of Judgment we see the ones judged to obtain that more prominate place.

Quote - From this you deduce/infer the possibility that it reflects a change in reward after the judgment fires of G-d have burnt away our dross on our arrival into His Presence.

Response - AMEN - You got it

[Larry 2]

I asked the question a long time ago concerning the placement of the names and the significance of the differences, but never received a satisfying reply.

Dear Sister Traveller, I'm sorry for the late reply - I've been tied to another thread I posted. I do hope the reply I just gave Botz helps - Thank you in Jesus' name

[Botz]

Hey Larry...thanks for the idea, interesting. I will have to think about it a bit, read and meditate on the possibility (biblical not transendental). I think part of the difficulty in dealing with the Urim and Thummim is that so little information is available about their role, and looking back we only get a vague idea and a glimpse into their functions so that drawing any lessons or comparing them with New Covenant Teaching is no easy task....but I am all for 'sanctified speculation'.

[traveller]

Makes sense. I know that when they went into battle the order was important. In the book of Judges, when they went into battle against the tribe of Benjamin, Judah was to go first.

Along with brothe Botz, I too will have to ponder this. Thanks for the thread

[Larry 2]

Hey Larry...thanks for the idea, interesting. I will have to think about it a bit, read and meditate on the possibility (biblical not transendental). I think part of the difficulty in dealing with the Urim and Thummim is that so little information is available about their role, and looking back we only get a vague idea and a glimpse into their functions so that drawing any lessons or comparing them with New Covenant Teaching is no easy task....but I am all for 'sanctified speculation'.

The Urim and the Tummiym according to Strong's concordance were used as a lot to show the decision or the will of God in something. Thus possibly throwing light on something. In the New Testament we see the disciples gave forth their lots to determine such a choice. Just a thought.