The divorce and remarriage question

[BigBert]

What I meant by saying "the truth hurts," I was referring also to myself. Remarriage is a sin like any other and I have sinned too. But repentence is also necessary. How can one repent if still living in sin (remarriage)?

BTW, I am far from self righteous and do not appreciate being called that nor any other names.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:10

A. Let's clear this up right away: No one has called you any names, so let's not go there. Your attitude on this issue often lacks grace and understanding, and that is what you are being called to account for, not particularly the message itself.

B. If you don't like responses to your posts, perhaps you should consider a change of attitude towards your Christian brothers and sisters and choose your words more carefully.

Remarriage is not always a sin. There is absolutely no way that being married again after a divorce is living in a constant state of adultery. The first act might be adulterly, IF the divorce was not for a biblical reason, but as soon as one repents, they are forgiven by God and that sin is forgotten. For good. When you, and others who wish to cause guilt trips about divorce (and that's really the only motivation I can think of for threads like this) start tossing around "constant state of adultery," you are saying, not hinting, not suggesting, not intimating, that divorce and remarriage is an unforgivable sin. And you are 100% wrong, not according to me, but according to scripture. There is only one unforgivable sin, and adultery, and/or divorce and remarriage isn't it.

I've seen all kinds of people saying all kinds of things on this subject. Some of them way too hard-line like you and JCISG, and others advocating divorce for just about any conceivable reason and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I've seen people advocate divorcing whoever you are with now and trying to hook up with your first spouse, if he/she will take you back. How stupid is that? Commit another sin by getting divorced again, and then committ another sin because Deuteronomy 24:4 says you are not to re-marry your first spouse.

Divorce is horrible and should always be resorted to as the absolute last option. But this whole attitude of "then you can't get married again" is bogus. The whole attitude that one is in a constant state of adultery if they remarry is bogus.

When a couple is divorced, there is seldom a divorce that has both people wanting out. One wants out, the other does not. The entire process is painful enough, but then we have people who wish to prolong that pain and make sure a person suffers for a divorce the rest of their life, and these people are inside the church. The church is one of the few institutions I know of that often trys to kill their wounded. "Been divorced? Too bad, we'll make it worse. Your living in a constant state of sin. Your damaged goods and a second-class Christian. Your only good for menial tasks within the church like taking out the trash and cleaning up after a church dinner. Hope you don't desire more than that, because we will remind you often that you sinned, you are basically no good, and you should feel shame the rest of your life." I often anger people because even though I have been divorced, I refuse to hang my head in shame, or resign myself to the position that most of the churchs would like for me to that I am no good for anything but warming the back pew. IF I was wrong in my divorce and remarriage, which I don't feel I was, I have ask forgiveness, and I stand forgiven, now and always by Jesus' shed blood. I don't need or seek the approval of the church or someone on a message board. God shows much more grace on this issue than most churches, or individuals do, and it's too bad that more people and fellowships are not able to figure that out.

So to those that wish to make those who have already suffered enough through this horrible experience suffer more: Stop.

And to those that have suffered, have asked forgiveness, but are still feeling guilt or shame: Stop. God doesn't see you that way, just some mis-guided and unforgiving people do.

Fantastic reply, brother. I believe you understand the spirit of what God/Jesus wants to convey more than a lot of folks who inevitably miss the Spirit of love, forgiveness and grace and, rather, mistake it for permissiveness and a do whatever feels good mentality. But that's not what folks like you and I are talking about, and I believe it's a grave error to assume that to be the case for folks without knowing the circumstances.

Edited September 1, 2009 by BigBert

[~Shalhevet~]

I apologize for being a conservative Christian.

[~Shalhevet~]

That is exactly what I am talking about. That is a smug and condescending reply. You would be hard-pressed to find a Christian more conservative than me. There are plenty of people here who know me and will attest to my conservativeness, so be careful making judgement calls when you don't have enough information to go on.

The fact is, it irks you when people won't agree with you. And instead of talking about the subject rationally and dealing with points we bring up, you use a drive-by approach like the one above. Nice. How about dealing with what we say instead of dropping snide remarks to let everyone know how much better than them you are?

Let me ask you this: When was the last time that your chastising someone with "GOD HATES DIVORCE" actually caused them to not get one or fall all over themselves repenting for the sins you wish to lay on their shoulders? (because it isn't God doing it) How has this whole approach worked for you so far?

You are taking things a bit too seriously here. I never passed any sort of judgment. I am neither smug nor condescending. It is, in fact, judgmental of you to say such terrible things about someone you don't know.

[JCISGD]

Hi Miss Elly, IMO you make two grave errors based on assumptions.

Firstly you think all those against remmarriage wish to be legalistic towards their brothers and sisters in Christ and that they are just defending a pet doctrine.

I say this because you say you are glad they are not God, but what if they are right and God does hold that standard. Would you then stop loving God?

I myself could wish that remmarriage were permitted as it affects nearly all around me of my friends and half my family. I have only recently come to the position that i truly believe Jesus gives no grounds to any follower of His to divorce or remain in a second marriage if it is adultery. i.e " whoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery" and this is backed up by " While her husband lives she is called an adulteress"

Secondly you claim God would not rip apart these marriages.

The problem is also with your language "rip apart", this implies that if God did require it He was also uncaring of the effects and simply wanting to enforce laws.

The testimony of J Humpries on the Spirit of Hosea website shows Gods clear but compassionate dealings with him over a 2 yr period, allowing him to come around to his convictions in due time and not compound his sin by doing anything doubtful. But he did see that he had to break off his adulterous marriage.

I urge you and others to atleast check these claims out, if we are being offered proof or evidence we are morally obligated to investigate it untill we are satisfied that it has no claims or bearing on us.

God through Ezra required the Jews to send away their unlawful wives, some of them with children. God has expressly told them they were not to inter marry and this then made their marriages unlawful and not valid in His sight. They were obligated to divorce as the marriages were not holy. Had they not done this the whole world we know now may have been vastly different, as God was using Israel to be a light to the nations and the vehicle to usher in the Messiah.

I realise those remmarried are heavily invested in this, but it is not wisdom to sweep anything under the carpet to save time or work.

[~Shalhevet~]

Please advise me on how to kindly state that remarriage is wrong without hurting anyone's feelings here.

[JCISGD]

Colbalt you seem to me for the most part to be a level headed person and reasonable.

But to me you also seem to rely heavily on an emtotive arguement, assuming to know the motives of others and even by implication presenting yourself as having far superior knowledge and understanding than those of us who hold the opposite veiw to you.

Perhaps you are passionate about defending those who you feel would be wronged by following their advice, but the judging we are commanded not to do is to claim to know the motive of anothers heart, or to call them "racca" (worthless), by word or implication. i.e insulting their opinions or right to them.

Brother let our arguments stand or fall by themselves, respecting the right to them untill proven otherwise. Innocent till proven guilty.

God Bless,

Arthur

[~Shalhevet~]

These would be a good place to start. The problem is not your "hurting feelings" as you put it. The problem is not your message. The problem is your attitude while delivering the message.

I honestly think the problem is that you are being very emotional about my beliefs, which I too have a right to. Obviously, when something is written there is no expression.

[Smalcald]

If remarriage was never an option in our society, if it were illegal would people get divorced less often?

What are some reasons that we have so many more divorces today than 50 years ago in the Church?

[JCISGD]

Cobalt thank you for your consideration of my thoughts, i appreciate your efforts and treatment today.

I think it is natural that our emotions rise and fall while discussing matters that are close to our heart, its just that i think words used to paint a picture CAN be dishonest in that they are designed to promote predjudice or imply default by association.

For example the name "tree huggers", while ok in the right spirit, can also be used to imply their cause or arguement is simplistic or nutty.

Now you say i did they same thing as you, but you will see i said "to me it seems" and that is my honest assessment, but it leaves room for me to be wrong and i did not say you were. I do think it was better if i had asked you outright for your position, i aplogise for this.

I hope you can respect that i have not come to my position on MDR easily, they are born out of much trial and personal cost, and they set me in opposition to nearly all in my circles and the church in NZ as a whole. This not what i had in mind for my life and i would be relieved to be proven wrong.

Please know i hold no malice or drive to personally attack those who hold opposite veiws, such as are many of my close friends, i just cannot in good conscience yeild mine.

[JCISGD]

If remarriage was never an option in our society, if it were illegal would people get divorced less often?

What are some reasons that we have so many more divorces today than 50 years ago in the Church?

IMO the shift has come with the shift of the position of the Church, and this as you say only in the last 50 yrs or so. Im not talking about the RC church but from the earliest Christians till 100 yrs ago it was not so.

The Church is called to be the head and not the tail, and IMO sin only runs rampant when Christians backslide into error.