Spiritual Journey

[BlindSeeker]

. . . It is true that we don't know for whom Christ died. We know that He died for sinners . . .

But not all sinners, right?

This is the best way I can answer this question considering I had the same qualms for years, and this was the final scripture that finally made me see predestination is Biblical:

Ephesians 1: 3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love

5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ok, but here is my understanding of the verse.

God decided before the foundation of the world that we would only be able to be holy and blameless before in Him by our response to His love for us which would be evident by the offering of His Son Jesus Christ as a propitiation for our sins. It was through this that God predetermined that adoption of the wicked unto sonship would be possible according to His will.

Another verse that seems to be taken for God creating and selecting a few for salvation . . . and the rest for eternal damnation, since it two sides of the same coin, is

[BlindSeeker]

Hey sweet Sister Xan,

Wasn't meaning to shut down the thread . . . just wanted to reason with you.

Peace

William

[Xan]

Hey sweet Sister Xan,

Wasn't meaning to shut down the thread . . . just wanted to reason with you.

Peace

William

William, I wanted to share with my Worthy friends my excitement and the path God has lead me through the past five months. Even though I can answer your challenge, I chose not to because it was turning into a debate. This is new to me, and the typical response for most people when coming upon new understanding is excitement and wanting to share with absolutely no desre to be put on the defense. I will probably be willing to engage in a soapbox debate with just you in time, but for now let me continue to grow in the direction God has chosen for me. Be blessed, dear brother, and I hope for the chance to meet you in person in two weeks.

[Mudcat]

Hey sweet Sister Xan,

Wasn't meaning to shut down the thread . . . just wanted to reason with you.

Peace

William

William, I wanted to share with my Worthy friends my excitement and the path God has lead me through the past five months. Even though I can answer your challenge, I chose not to because it was turning into a debate. This is new to me, and the typical response for most people when coming upon new understanding is excitement and wanting to share with absolutely no desre to be put on the defense. I will probably be willing to engage in a soapbox debate with just you in time, but for now let me continue to grow in the direction God has chosen for me. Be blessed, dear brother, and I hope for the chance to meet you in person in two weeks.

Hi Xan,

I can't speak for William, only me, though I feel on some level he might agree with me.

Anything that brings you closer to God, is a great thing. If we have prodded you a bit much on the doctrinal side, most likely its because of the particular forum you chose to place your thoughts.

I have enjoyed your words, so far. Thank you for sharing them. You have a sweet spirit.

The best thing to remember is that moments like you have had are milestones on your journey.

They are markers on the path to a closer walk with God.

I have seen some make the mistake of making a milestone, an anchor. No doubt it holds them to the road, but it impedes further travel.

I am not suggesting, this is what you intend to do....

Given the title of your thread, I suppose I just thought of it and wanted to spit it out.

Hopefully, you will receive it in the spirit it was given.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Edited October 2, 2008 by Mudcat

[Xan]

Thanks, Mudcat. I certainly do not view this as an anchor. In fact, this whole thing started as a result of my growing understanding of sanctification. I have placed my life and my growth in our Savior in His hands, and I know He will not fail to lead me in a closer walk with Him.

[BlindSeeker]

Hey sweet Sister Xan,

Wasn't meaning to shut down the thread . . . just wanted to reason with you.

Peace

William

William, I wanted to share with my Worthy friends my excitement and the path God has lead me through the past five months. Even though I can answer your challenge, I chose not to because it was turning into a debate. This is new to me, and the typical response for most people when coming upon new understanding is excitement and wanting to share with absolutely no desre to be put on the defense. I will probably be willing to engage in a soapbox debate with just you in time, but for now let me continue to grow in the direction God has chosen for me. Be blessed, dear brother, and I hope for the chance to meet you in person in two weeks.

Hello hellbunny Sweet sister of mine,

We will proceed and address this at your choice. You are more important than my perspective of anything.

Peace.

Jealous for you,

William

[Mudcat]

Thanks, Mudcat. I certainly do not view this as an anchor. In fact, this whole thing started as a result of my growing understanding of sanctification. I have placed my life and my growth in our Savior in His hands, and I know He will not fail to lead me in a closer walk with Him.

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

As a matter of fact, (*Mudcat unabashedly plugs his upcoming thread*)I plan on starting a thread in regards to faith, works, security of the believer and so forth, pretty soon. Hopefully you will see fit to check it out, when I put it up and share your beliefs, as a discussion on sanctification would fit right in.

[Xan]

Thanks, Mudcat. I certainly do not view this as an anchor. In fact, this whole thing started as a result of my growing understanding of sanctification. I have placed my life and my growth in our Savior in His hands, and I know He will not fail to lead me in a closer walk with Him.

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

As a matter of fact, (*Mudcat unabashedly plugs his upcoming thread*)I plan on starting a thread in regards to faith, works, security of the believer and so forth, pretty soon. Hopefully you will see fit to check it out, when I put it up and share your beliefs, as a discussion on sanctification would fit right in.

Go ahead. Shamelessly promote your new thread. I look forward to it.

As to your question, let me start with this passage of scripture:

Romans 6: 3 "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,"

I realize this passage was talking about sin, but there is so much more there. If we have died and have been resurrected with Christ, then it is not by our efforts that we walk in Him, but by His grace. Also, God promises that He will complete the good work He has started. He saved us, so that is the start of the work, but that is only justification (as if anyone could actually say "only" with regards to salvation). Romans 8:30 "and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." From the very beginning, it is God's work in our lives, not of us that we could boast, but of God. When I started really seeing His soverignty in ways I never have before, it spilled over from not just my emerging beliefs in sanctification but in justification as well.

As I said, that was just the beginning with this journey, and it in and of itself did not convince me of predestination, but what a beginning!

[BlindSeeker]

. . . Romans 8:30 "and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." From the very beginning, it is God's work in our lives, not of us that we could boast, but of God. When I started really seeing His soverignty in ways I never have before, it spilled over from not just my emerging beliefs in sanctification but in justification as well.

You may want to consider whether this was a reference to the gentiles becoming joint heirs with the Jews in Christ . . . and not a reference to individual's salvation.

[Xan]

. . . Romans 8:30 "and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." From the very beginning, it is God's work in our lives, not of us that we could boast, but of God. When I started really seeing His soverignty in ways I never have before, it spilled over from not just my emerging beliefs in sanctification but in justification as well.

You may want to consider whether this was a reference to the gentiles becoming joint heirs with the Jews in Christ . . . and not a reference to individual's salvation.

I was relating it to sanctification.