unanswered prayer

[Mom2Many]

Maybe it was in the way I explained it that made it come off as contradicting. We are told in Ephesians 5:22-24 "22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. "

Now for me and I do understand not everyone in the world is going to agree with this, but to me this verse alone tells me that no matter what, I am supposed to submit to my husband. God appointed him leadership above me just as Jesus has leadership above all of the human race. For me not to submit to my husband in everything is complete disobediance against God on my part. If my husband is doing something that goes against God, whether I believe he should be doing it or not, and after I've made the proper appeal to him, he is still insistant upon doing this act, it is my responsibility, given to me by God, to support him and back him up. If this act is indeed going against God, I won't have to be the one to answer for it because I was obediant to God and I submitted as I was instructed to do. I hope I explained that better. But to me, not to submit to my husband, is to not to submit to God. Ephesians 5:24 tells me this. The church (Jesus's followers) don't submit to Jesus just when they want to, or when it benefits them, or when they think it's right, they submit to him always, because they love, honor and respect him, just as we should our husbands.

I hope that explains my view on wives being submissive.

As for birth control, oh it works, but....it fails more than we could ever imagine. We just don't know it, because we think we've just started another cycle, when indeed, we've just miscarried a baby. Ultimately, that baby has been aborted because of the chemicals we just put in our bodies. Unfortunately, we've just prevented a life that God wanted us to have but because of our choices and the chemicals that man made, we've ended that life.

Just my view!

[givennewname]

I meant that we would all be the Duggars philosophically, not that we would all have 18 kids. Colleen, how do you know that M. Duggar "weans all her kids at 4 months so she will regain her fertility fast"? Nursing is not natural birth control IME and from much that I have read. It is normal to return to fertility by six months, no matter how you nurse. I nursed my babies also, but my cycles came back between 4-6 months.

I know quite a bit about birth control methods and how they work. But it is all moot unless my husband agrees. That's my point about the whole issue of submission in the first place.

I believe we are all held accountable for our own actions and if God says to submit, going against that is going against God. All our hubby's make silly choices and decisions, we can lovingly appeal our hubbys', but in the end, he's supposed to have the final word, at all times. If he's doing something that goes against God, isn't biblical, then he'll have to answer for that, not me.

This sounds contradictory to me. If we are accountable for our own actions, we can't also say that HE answers for it if he's going against God.

I have seen birth control fail many times....just ask my oldest.

But it "works" much more often than it fails. I don't see a birth control failure as God saying, "See? I'm determined to bring another baby about here, so if I have to override you, I will." How can that be? That is like saying that all the birth control "successes" out there were God saying, "Eh - that's okay. I wasn't going to make a baby anyway."

Michelle Duggar has spoken several times that she weans at 4 months to regain her fertility faster. Her last pregnancy could be life threatening to her and they will probably do a hyst after this one is born to prevent a rupture. Have to wait till late Dec or so to find that out though. When I nurse it takes 9 months to a year for mine to come back. Some people are earlier some are later. I know some who haven't gotten it back till the baby weaned. But to intentionally wean so you can add more and more kids wasn't exactly in Gods plan. You don't cut off the kids prime nutriion source so that you can have more.

Yes birth control works more often than not, but have you looked into how it works? Not just what the doctor tells you either. Doctors seem to have this horrible issue of lying. Words like zygote and fetus are their biggest lies.

Hey, that is not fair... I am a gynecologist and i do not lie to patients. I present them with accurate facts and the patient herself makes an informed decision based on the facts.

Not all contreception prevent implantation. There are so called natural family planning based on timimg of the cycle, basal body temperature and cervical mucus or a combination of three which could predict ovulation. Condoms don't prevent implantation and the Oral contreceptive pill is meant to prevent ovulation, so there are many choices for contreception that may not offend yr beliefs.

A woman can return to fertility as early as 6 weeks after delivery and lactation does delay ovulation but breast feeding must be used exclusively to make this work. As long as one keeps up the breast feeding, fertility is not restored.

I think birth control and family planning is not exclusively used to prevent pregnancies, although a big part of my practice , it is meant for that very purpose. Family planning means having children with optimum time periods between each child in order that mum is in the best of health to have a baby and to manage the baby so that each baby has the maximum care that it deserves. As to preventing pregnancies, i see so man teenage unplanned pregnancies i give thanks when a teenager does come to me for a prescripton and not end up with an unwanted pregnancy. That is my 2 cents worth ladies..

[givennewname]

Why would you only submit to yr husband only on condition if you think he is right? do you not think God could make a wrong decision made by yr husband into something good? God is still in control even if you have a silly husband.... that is what i tell my wife

This is not what I'm saying. Obviously, I can't have a baby by myself, so it's not as though I can defy him on this matter if I think he's wrong. I think there can be an "upside" to almost any decision, even if he had wanted no children at all. I could still point out all sorts of "something good" outcomes. I could travel to Calcutta and work with the desparately poor if I had no chidren of my own to raise.

Perhaps there is a meta-question that goes to the heart of the problem. See, I believe that choices matter. Our lives are mostly a composite of choices we have made and the influence of choices those central to our lives have made. I'll grant you we get a few wild cards that have nothing to do with our choice or another's choice, but on the whole, choices influence the vast majority of our lives. This does not square with the notion that God is in complete control.

See, I think if all people actually believed that God is in charge of creating all life, there would be no such thing as birth control. Every woman would have as many children as naturally came about in the marriage. We would all be the Duggars. Since this is not the case, apparently our choices matter. Because of birth control, we can override what might naturally happen. We can have one child, or two or three or whatever happens within the new biological reality we created by controlling our own fertility. I will grant you some people have a baby against the probability, but I don't believe this is God saying, "I don't care what you think, I'm giving you a baby anyway." Because if that were true, then all the billions of babies who are not born because of birth control represent what? Babies that God was not that pressed about bringing to fruition?

So, I said all that to make this one point: I believe that whether or not my husband ever goes along with having another child is not about whether or not God deems it so. It's just about *his choice*. Period. There can certainly be an "upside" to us not having any more kids. I don't have to risk losing another baby. I don't have to risk my own life - the conditions that killed my third baby could kill me also. I can focus my attention on the three I'm raising. I can do more things, I don't have to get a bigger vehicle, everyone has their own room, and on and on and on. Perhaps God knows that if we attempted to have another child, terrible things would happen and so he's keeping my husband stubborn on purpose. Maybe. But maybe my husband is just making this choice against what would be best. Maybe God is sorry we're not allowing Him to bring another wonderful child into the world. My point is, I don't think God goes around messing with it or else there'd be no such thing as efficacy rates in birth control.

I see one problem here sister. if you excuse my words, I think you are a theoretical believer but a practical deaist. You believe God created the world, but have instituted laws of nature that runs the world and that he is no longer directly in charge.. maybe a story of the Prophet Jonah, whom you may be familiar with might be of some help..

God ask Jonah to preach to the city of Nineveh, who at that time was the strongest empire around and a threat to Isreal. Jonah did not think it was a good idea sice the nineveh occupants were a threat to Isreal so he ran in the opposite direction to nineveh. God sorted this man out by getting a whale to swallow him and after 3 days in hades, the prophet went to Nineveh and preachech his message like what God had told him to do in the begining and the city repented. Did Neneveh become a threat to Isreal, Yes, the 10 tribes were exiled there. Was God wrong-no, he did his purpose.

[Guest man]

I believe we are all held accountable for our own actions and if God says to submit, going against that is going against God. All our hubby's make silly choices and decisions, we can lovingly appeal our hubbys', but in the end, he's supposed to have the final word, at all times. If he's doing something that goes against God, isn't biblical, then he'll have to answer for that, not me.

This sounds contradictory to me. If we are accountable for our own actions, we can't also say that HE answers for it if he's going against God.

We are all accountable for our own actions.

On the day I stand before the Lord, I will have to give an account, as will you and everyone else.

I have seen birth control fail many times....just ask my oldest.

But it "works" much more often than it fails. I don't see a birth control failure as God saying, "See? I'm determined to bring another baby about here, so if I have to override you, I will." How can that be? That is like saying that all the birth control "successes" out there were God saying, "Eh - that's okay. I wasn't going to make a baby anyway."

Do you really believe that something that is manmade can override the power of God?

[LilyPotter]

Yes birth control works more often than not, but have you looked into how it works?

Yes.

We are all accountable for our own actions.

Yes, that's what I believe.

As long as one keeps up the breast feeding, fertility is not restored.

That is not an absolute. As you said, some people return earlier, some later. Some women do not return to cycles for a long time, even nursing a toddler. Some are much earlier, even if they are exclusively bfing.

If my husband is doing something that goes against God, whether I believe he should be doing it or not, and after I've made the proper appeal to him, he is still insistant upon doing this act, it is my responsibility, given to me by God, to support him and back him up. If this act is indeed going against God, I won't have to be the one to answer for it because I was obediant to God and I submitted as I was instructed to do.

Momtomany, I understand where you are coming from and I have had long discussions that lasted for weeks with concordances and original words, etc. where I was giving support in favor of submission and the headship of the husband. But I do not agree when the man is wrong. If my husband was running a meth lab out of the basement and he told me to keep quiet about it, I don't believe that it is my duty to obey him, let alone respect and honor him. Lets take the "no more babies" concept a step further. (This would never happen in my marriage; it's an example.) Suppose a woman got pregnant after hubby said no more babies and he insisted on an abortion. Should she submit? How about if they learned the baby had medical problems and he insisted on an abortion, because he doesn't want a damaged child? Shoud she submit? Personally, I would say NO WAY. I would never do this.

Do you really believe that something that is manmade can override the power of God?

Man, apparently God allows it. I'm not saying that God couldn't override every birthcontrol ever devised - I'm not saying He isn't able to - Just that He apparently doesn't. People who use birth control most often have fewer children then those who don't and the few children they do have are most often "planned" - intended by the parents in a time they hoped/expected it. In countries where birth control and abortion are prevalent and/or government-forced, birth rates decline, sometimes to a "non-replacement" level.

Obviously, people continuously make choices that God would not sanction. Apparently, He lets us.

Michelle Duggar has spoken several times that she weans at 4 months to regain her fertility faster. Her last pregnancy could be life threatening to her and they will probably do a hyst after this one is born to prevent a rupture. Have to wait till late Dec or so to find that out though.

I have never heard her say this. Perhaps she has, but I thought that she simply never uses birth control, so when her fertility returns, she is bound to get pregnant again. Actually, what I've wondered many times is how her body hasn't gone through some major problem by now. Repeated pregnancies and c-sections and vbacs and c-sections and so on and on and on. I don't know how her uterus and pc muscles and other parts can even continue that way without a uterine rupture or prolapse or some other major hurdle. That is what I've wondered even more than how you do all that laundry and what must their food bill be.

[Floatingaxe]

After having two babies, I wanted the third, as I had always wanted my whole life. My husband said no, we couldn't afford it. After a long talk, I finally agreed, and put it to rest. Within a few weeks, I discovered I was pregnant again!

We had our three! Somehow, the Lord made the decision.

In other words, listen to your husband, but don't abandon your secret hope. You can certainly tell the Lord that you will wait on Him. Whatever He desires to cause to issue from your love is His decision alone. That way, your longing heart will become quiet with confidence in Jesus.

God bless you as you seek His will in your life.

[Mom2Many]

In reference to the hypothedical questions you are asking, yes, I do believe our husbands still deserve our love, respect and honor. If we married men that ran meth labs out of their basements, or believed in abortion for whatever the reason was, then we loved, honored and respected them enough in the beginning to marry them and they should continue to get that love, honor and respect.

If, hypothedically speaking, my husband all of a sudden began running a meth lab out of my basement, I think because I'm connected enough to my husband and have given him the love, honor and respect right from the beginning, I would have seen it coming soon enough to intervene and get him the help he would need, before he started doing something like that. And most importantly, before he asked me to keep quiet about it.

As for abortion, that's not something that would ever come up in my marriage. Firstly, if my husband says no more babies (and he has said that to me in the past), he's known that I will submit to his request, but it's up to him to prevent it, not me. He's loved and cared for me enough to be the one to take the steps necessary, not me. Also, in my marriage, my husband knows never to ask me to do such a thing. We both believe it is murder, taking an innocent life, regardless of circumstance. If someone is married to a man that would ask such a thing of her, then most likely she knew this from the beginning.

You see, trusting God to family size for us, isn't about how many children we can have, or how many blessings God can give us. It's about trusting God with everything, our marriage, our finances, our lives, our children, our health and our family size. As a believer, I can't pick and chose what I allow God to have control over. I can't give him some things, but pick others to hold on to. If I'm to give God my all, it has to be our all and that means everything.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I meant that we would all be the Duggars philosophically, not that we would all have 18 kids. Colleen, how do you know that M. Duggar "weans all her kids at 4 months so she will regain her fertility fast"? Nursing is not natural birth control IME and from much that I have read. It is normal to return to fertility by six months, no matter how you nurse. I nursed my babies also, but my cycles came back between 4-6 months.

I know quite a bit about birth control methods and how they work. But it is all moot unless my husband agrees. That's my point about the whole issue of submission in the first place.

I believe we are all held accountable for our own actions and if God says to submit, going against that is going against God. All our hubby's make silly choices and decisions, we can lovingly appeal our hubbys', but in the end, he's supposed to have the final word, at all times. If he's doing something that goes against God, isn't biblical, then he'll have to answer for that, not me.

This sounds contradictory to me. If we are accountable for our own actions, we can't also say that HE answers for it if he's going against God.

I have seen birth control fail many times....just ask my oldest.

But it "works" much more often than it fails. I don't see a birth control failure as God saying, "See? I'm determined to bring another baby about here, so if I have to override you, I will." How can that be? That is like saying that all the birth control "successes" out there were God saying, "Eh - that's okay. I wasn't going to make a baby anyway."

Michelle Duggar has spoken several times that she weans at 4 months to regain her fertility faster. Her last pregnancy could be life threatening to her and they will probably do a hyst after this one is born to prevent a rupture. Have to wait till late Dec or so to find that out though. When I nurse it takes 9 months to a year for mine to come back. Some people are earlier some are later. I know some who haven't gotten it back till the baby weaned. But to intentionally wean so you can add more and more kids wasn't exactly in Gods plan. You don't cut off the kids prime nutriion source so that you can have more.

Yes birth control works more often than not, but have you looked into how it works? Not just what the doctor tells you either. Doctors seem to have this horrible issue of lying. Words like zygote and fetus are their biggest lies.

Hey, that is not fair... I am a gynecologist and i do not lie to patients. I present them with accurate facts and the patient herself makes an informed decision based on the facts.

Not all contreception prevent implantation. There are so called natural family planning based on timimg of the cycle, basal body temperature and cervical mucus or a combination of three which could predict ovulation. Condoms don't prevent implantation and the Oral contreceptive pill is meant to prevent ovulation, so there are many choices for contreception that may not offend yr beliefs.

A woman can return to fertility as early as 6 weeks after delivery and lactation does delay ovulation but breast feeding must be used exclusively to make this work. As long as one keeps up the breast feeding, fertility is not restored.

I think birth control and family planning is not exclusively used to prevent pregnancies, although a big part of my practice , it is meant for that very purpose. Family planning means having children with optimum time periods between each child in order that mum is in the best of health to have a baby and to manage the baby so that each baby has the maximum care that it deserves. As to preventing pregnancies, i see so man teenage unplanned pregnancies i give thanks when a teenager does come to me for a prescripton and not end up with an unwanted pregnancy. That is my 2 cents worth ladies..

No offense. That is just iun my experience. I haven't had a doctor I was paying not lie to me yet. A doctors lies and greed killed my first husband while I was pregnant for my second child. Personally I use NFP. It hasn't failed me yet...LOL cept when the doc told me after #2 there was no possible way I would ever have another so he refused to steralize me. #3 came soon after.

[givennewname]

In reference to the hypothedical questions you are asking, yes, I do believe our husbands still deserve our love, respect and honor. If we married men that ran meth labs out of their basements, or believed in abortion for whatever the reason was, then we loved, honored and respected them enough in the beginning to marry them and they should continue to get that love, honor and respect.

If, hypothedically speaking, my husband all of a sudden began running a meth lab out of my basement, I think because I'm connected enough to my husband and have given him the love, honor and respect right from the beginning, I would have seen it coming soon enough to intervene and get him the help he would need, before he started doing something like that. And most importantly, before he asked me to keep quiet about it.

As for abortion, that's not something that would ever come up in my marriage. Firstly, if my husband says no more babies (and he has said that to me in the past), he's known that I will submit to his request, but it's up to him to prevent it, not me. He's loved and cared for me enough to be the one to take the steps necessary, not me. Also, in my marriage, my husband knows never to ask me to do such a thing. We both believe it is murder, taking an innocent life, regardless of circumstance. If someone is married to a man that would ask such a thing of her, then most likely she knew this from the beginning.

You see, trusting God to family size for us, isn't about how many children we can have, or how many blessings God can give us. It's about trusting God with everything, our marriage, our finances, our lives, our children, our health and our family size. As a believer, I can't pick and chose what I allow God to have control over. I can't give him some things, but pick others to hold on to. If I'm to give God my all, it has to be our all and that means everything.

If hypothetecally yr husband is running a meth lab out of yr basement, do u think disobeying him or not agreeing with him and nagging him will make him stop? or do u think God is more likely to alter him?

I think (and this is mt personal view as a man) your husband may say no- and to a man it may mean no for the moment and maybe for the distant future. it is like prayers.. if the prayer of a rightoeus man/woman availeth much, i am sure God can change his mind. Have you prayed about it?

[Mom2Many]

In reference to the hypothedical questions you are asking, yes, I do believe our husbands still deserve our love, respect and honor. If we married men that ran meth labs out of their basements, or believed in abortion for whatever the reason was, then we loved, honored and respected them enough in the beginning to marry them and they should continue to get that love, honor and respect.

If, hypothedically speaking, my husband all of a sudden began running a meth lab out of my basement, I think because I'm connected enough to my husband and have given him the love, honor and respect right from the beginning, I would have seen it coming soon enough to intervene and get him the help he would need, before he started doing something like that. And most importantly, before he asked me to keep quiet about it.

As for abortion, that's not something that would ever come up in my marriage. Firstly, if my husband says no more babies (and he has said that to me in the past), he's known that I will submit to his request, but it's up to him to prevent it, not me. He's loved and cared for me enough to be the one to take the steps necessary, not me. Also, in my marriage, my husband knows never to ask me to do such a thing. We both believe it is murder, taking an innocent life, regardless of circumstance. If someone is married to a man that would ask such a thing of her, then most likely she knew this from the beginning.

You see, trusting God to family size for us, isn't about how many children we can have, or how many blessings God can give us. It's about trusting God with everything, our marriage, our finances, our lives, our children, our health and our family size. As a believer, I can't pick and chose what I allow God to have control over. I can't give him some things, but pick others to hold on to. If I'm to give God my all, it has to be our all and that means everything.

If hypothetecally yr husband is running a meth lab out of yr basement, do u think disobeying him or not agreeing with him and nagging him will make him stop? or do u think God is more likely to alter him?

I think (and this is mt personal view as a man) your husband may say no- and to a man it may mean no for the moment and maybe for the distant future. it is like prayers.. if the prayer of a rightoeus man/woman availeth much, i am sure God can change his mind. Have you prayed about it?

No, nagging him isn't going to get him to stop, it's just going to make him do it all the more, not to mention resent me. I can't change my husband's heart, only God can do that for him.