Osiris Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/19/1981 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 (edited) The truth is your mind is made up on this and if we do try to help you, you reject it and respond with more questions. You don't actually seek answers - you seek a way to manipulate our comments so you can ask more questions. You in fact twist them. I'm not going to argue with you - I've given you links. Read them or don't read them, but I'm not putting forth energy when I know it isn't really wanted or appreciated. Good day. The thing is, I did not make my mind up, I did not wake up one day and made my mind up that God doesn't exist. When one is a kid, one knows Santa Claus exists, but as one grows old, one finds out that Santa doesn't really exist. One does not make their mind up that Santa doesn't exist. We have no choice in choosing. you reject it and respond with more questions. You don't actually seek answers - you seek a way to manipulate our comments so you can ask more questions. Hmm, I don't know where you are from, but asking questions is the way to seek for the answer. I don't believe because the book says so, I would like to know how it is done please. And no, I do not manipulate your answers. Tell me where I have manipulated your answers, or are you just trying to make me look bad? The reason I ask questions is because some statements aren't logical, and I ask the questions to know why they seem illogical to me, maybe there is an answer I do not know and you might. "The important thing is not to stop questioning. " Albert Einstein( 1879-1955) Edited June 4, 2004 by Osiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Einstein is dead, Jesus is alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/19/1981 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Einstein is dead, Jesus is alive. Do you have evidence or just assumptions based on a claim that Jesus is still alive? I could also say that Elvis Presley is still alive, there are rumors that he is still alive, what does that make of Elvis Presley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted June 4, 2004 But I cannot believe on the claims of people claiming to be inspired by God, there is no historical evidence that can prove people are inspired by God. If God wants himself to be known, he could do a better job than instead of making a book. I cannot assume people were inspired by God, so then I can conclude that there is a God, I would not find this an honest way to believe in something. Hi again Let me try a different approach for you....this is based on historical facts & odds of probability. It is historical fact that the book of Isaiah was written somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 years before Christ. In the book of Isaiah, there are 17 prophecies regarding the Messiah. What this means, is Isaiah said 17 explicit things about Jesus. Every one of them came true. What follows is from the book "Signature of God". It will put what this means in perspective. Even if you're not interested, if nothing else, humor me please and read it....ok ? What are the chances that all seventeen of these predictions occurred by chance rather than by the divine plan of God? Either these seventeen predictions are simply the result of chance or this evidence provides overwhelming proof that God inspired the Bible and is in control of history. The combined probability AGAINST these 17 predictions occurring is equal to 1 chance in 480,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 1 chance in 480 Billion 1 Billion x 1 Trillion In other words, there is only one chance in 480 billion x I Billion x 1 Trillion that these Old Testament prophets could have accurately predicted these seventeen specific prophecies about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ by chance alone. The odds are equally impossible that any man could have fulfilled these detailed prophecies by chance alone. Let any reader assign any other estimates they might choose for these probabilities that these predictions occurred. Regardless of the size of the estimates for probability you assign to these individual predictions, you will still be confronted with a combined probability so staggering in its magnitude that it will be impossible to honestly convince yourself that these things occurred by chance. In the unlikely event that you still are not convinced, consider the fact that we have examined only seventeen of the forty-eight major prophecies given in the Old Testament about the promised Messiah. If we were to calculate the odds against all forty-eight predictions occurring by chance we would arrive at a number so large that it would exceed our capacity to comprehend it. These Prophecies Prove the Bible Is Inspired By God. When we consider these seventeen specific Messianic prophecies, the odds against any one person fulfilling these predictions by chance alone are absolutely astronomical. To fully grasp the reality that these fulfilled prophecies prove that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah and Son of God, consider the following illustration: First, the odds against the prophets correctly guessing all seventeen prophecies are: 1 chance in 480 Billion x 1 Billion x 1 Trillion! Next, to fully grasp these incredible odds we must try to get a picture of these odds in our minds. Imagine that every one of these chances was represented by a small grain of sand. Furthermore, imagine that a single grain of sand is painted gold and represents the one chance out of this astronomical number that Christ fulfilled these predictions by chance. We are going to blindfold you and ask you to search for the single gold-painted grain of sand. Imagine that the entire galaxy known as the Milky Way, encompassing two hundred million stars like our sun plus millions of planets, moons, and asteroids is composed only of these 480 Billion x 1 Billion x 1 Trillion grains of sand. In a galaxy filled with this incredible number of grains of sand, your target is the only grain of sand that is painted gold. Remember the galaxy is so vast that if you could travel in the Star Trek Enterprise at the speed of light, 187,000 miles per second, it would still take you a hundred thousand years to cross the galaxy. If we were to blindfold you and send you blindly searching through our entire galaxy to find a single gold-painted grain of sand, you would face the same impossible odds in finding the gold grain of sand as the odds against these seventeen prophecies occurring by chance alone. Do you think there might just be something to the Bible ? Read it over, think about it and honestly ask yourself if this is all a chance. If one can believe the overwhelming odds that evolution happened, I simply can not see why this is so hard to believe. In Him, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Einstein is dead, Jesus is alive. Do you have evidence or just assumptions based on a claim that Jesus is still alive? I could also say that Elvis Presley is still alive, there are rumors that he is still alive, what does that make of Elvis Presley? I dont have to show evidence that Jesus is alive. You are the one saying that He isn't. Show me your evidence You claim that you were a christian for eighteen years.I dont believe you. You may have gone to church for that long, but that doesn't make you a christian I drive a motor car, but that doesn't make me a petrol head. I have a close relative, who spent seventeen years studying the bible. In the last twelve years he has spent the best part of ten thousabd bucks, bying books to try and discredit God and disprove the bible. And he still cant and neither can you. You'll all mouth and trousers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittyjo Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 523 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2004 I think Bob and BoldyproclaimingChrist have answered these questions pretty well. Re: sin [and the posts/threads about sinlessness], the first thing I think of is Psalm 51 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin...Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom... Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me... Anywho... I think that it all comes down to one thing.... FAITH. Faith requires placing your trust in something you can't see or necessarily prove. When we recieve Jesus Christ as Savior, we are exercising faith that He is the way to heaven; He is our redeemer; through Him we are reunited with our heavenly Father. Who do you place your faith in? I choose God. He values choice because He created us with the ability to choose. We may choose to accept Him or reject Him. We are responsible for how we choose to live, and we are accountable for the consequences. James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. So how is faith attained? I think there needs to be a willingness to seek, to learn, to understand... Seek and you shall find. Pride, arrogance, self-interest, conceit, will block the path, interfering with seeing/knowing God. In order to find truth, one must humble themself. Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature, namely, His eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; John 1 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. One final quote, from the movie The Santa Clause... Charlie: Have you ever seen a million dollars? Neil: No. Charlie: Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I see God everywhere... In His creations. The sunrise; a childs smile; a single perfect snowflake; the purr of a kitten; the songs of the birds; in the thoughtfullness of strangers; the birth of new life; and the quiet stillness of death when life in this world is spent; in the joy of a answered prayer; and in my own daily struggles... He is there, and with Him, I am stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/19/1981 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Einstein is dead, Jesus is alive. Do you have evidence or just assumptions based on a claim that Jesus is still alive? I could also say that Elvis Presley is still alive, there are rumors that he is still alive, what does that make of Elvis Presley? I dont have to show evidence that Jesus is alive. You are the one saying that He isn't. I think you fail to see the logic behind that statement. The claim is that Jesus is alive. If you are going to make this claim, you are the one that needs to to show evidence to support this claim. With your reasoning, I can claim that my grandfather walked on water once just like Jesus and I don't need to show evidence. But if you don't believe me, you have to show evidence that my grandfather did not walk on water. That is not that logical now is it? And please do not put words into my mouth. I never said Jesus was not alive. Show me your evidence Show me evidence that purple aliens do not exist. You claim that you were a christian for eighteen years.I dont believe you. You may have gone to church for that long, but that doesn't make you a christian I drive a motor car, but that doesn't make me a petrol head. Whatever you want to believe, and I guess you are some sort of God that can see into people's minds and see how they feel or felt about something? "Who never doubted, never half believed. Where doubt is, there truth is...it is her shadow." Bailey ( 1816-1902) English Poet I have a close relative, who spent seventeen years studying the bible. In the last twelve years he has spent the best part of ten thousabd bucks, bying books to try and discredit God and disprove the bible. And he still cant and neither can you. You'll all mouth and trousers. How about this, God cannot exist if purple aliens exist. Now given that, show me evidence that purple aliens do not exist. If you can't, you are all mouth and truosers as well. I am not here to disprove God. Concepts such as God, aliens, etc., cannot be proven nor disproven. I cannot disprove God and you cannot prove God either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Quote Osirs, How about this, God cannot exist if purple aliens exist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why not? satan exists. are you saying purple aliens have more power that satan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/19/1981 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 But I cannot believe on the claims of people claiming to be inspired by God, there is no historical evidence that can prove people are inspired by God. If God wants himself to be known, he could do a better job than instead of making a book. I cannot assume people were inspired by God, so then I can conclude that there is a God, I would not find this an honest way to believe in something. Hi again Let me try a different approach for you....this is based on historical facts & odds of probability. It is historical fact that the book of Isaiah was written somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 years before Christ. In the book of Isaiah, there are 17 prophecies regarding the Messiah. What this means, is Isaiah said 17 explicit things about Jesus. Every one of them came true. What follows is from the book "Signature of God". It will put what this means in perspective. Even if you're not interested, if nothing else, humor me please and read it....ok ? If fulfilled prophecies prove that the bible is correct, what would unfulfullied prophecies prove? Prophecies such as the city of Tyre never being rebuilt when it actually was. And the story of Jesus, I feel doubt towards that since it is too similar to many other stories from its past. Do you think there might just be something to the Bible ? Read it over, think about it and honestly ask yourself if this is all a chance. If one can believe the overwhelming odds that evolution happened, I simply can not see why this is so hard to believe. In Him, Bob To be fair, If I think that there is something to the bible, I would also would have to think there is something to the Qu'ran and the Bhagavad Gita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted June 4, 2004 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/19/1981 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Quote Osirs, How about this, God cannot exist if purple aliens exist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why not? satan exists. are you saying purple aliens have more power that satan? Please don't break up the sentences and quote me out of context, what that was supposed to be was a logical problem. (to avoid further misunderstanding just note, the problem does NOT have to be true, it is just a hypothetical logical problem) This is given as true: God cannot exist if purple aliens exist. Prove: Show evidence that purple aliens do not exist. If purple aliens exist, God and all the characters that come along this his tale can't exist either. (If God doesn't exist, Satan doesn't either.) The question was, prove that purple aliens don't exist and demonstrate to you that you that it is impossible to prove 100% that concepts such as those cannot be proven or disproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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