JESUS = Rabi?

[kross]

JESUS was called Rabi/Raboni by people. This means teacher.

In a couple fo posts I have seen people say that JESUS was a travelling teacher. That this was a position within the religeous community.

In essence, JESUS was licensed to preach by some man made religious order that gave HIM HIS authority. It is because of this authority that HE was allowed to preach in the temple

This seemed to be the foundation for the idea of HIM having a vocation as a traveling teacher.

I believe JESUS was not associated with any religeous order and did not have any religeous group behind HIM.

HE was allowed to teach in the temple because the people had declared HIM a teacher sent from GOD and the religeous leaders of the day feared the people. In addition, they had a desire to give HIM enough rope to hang HIMSELF, which HE never did.

I mentioned this verse, John 7:15, where the jews said, "How does HE know the scriptures, since HE hasn't been trained"

It seems odd to me tht this statement would be made and then HIS training be acknowledged for the purpose of speaking in the temple.

So, I am wondering, how many orthodadox, believing Chritians believe that JESUS was part of an organized religion that gave HIM authority to preach in the temple?

If you believe this, can you tell me what church or seminary might have taught it to you. I am curious if it is a wide spread belief or limited to a particular church denomination or seminary.

Thank you.

[Rick-Parker]

I don't think He was. Remember that the Scribes and Pharisees asked Christ repeatedly by who's authority He preached and taught in the Temple and synagogue.

[Guest HIS girl]

So far I haven't read anywhere that Jesus was a student of any one. His Authority came directly from God.

Remember He was teaching at the age of 12? (When Joseph and Mary were looking for Him).

Would a student of letters at 12 have known enough to hold the Scribes spellbound in the Temple?

I don't think so - His teaching was different. He was UNLIKE the scribes because He taught with authority and that authority was from God and had the full force of His power behind it.

My opinion. : )

[KC02]

I have wondered about this myself. Apparently, Jesus taught in the temple from an early age, so maybe they allowed the "kid" to speak on occasion, and Jesus made a name for himself. We don't know if He studied with any Rabbis at the time. We have no reason to believe that Jesus had any religious group behind Him. Religious folks hung Him on a cross.

Jesus must have already made a name for Himself, so to speak, for the disciples to "follow him." It was the disciples' second chance to be taught from a Rabbi. Apparently, His disciples were bottom of the barrel folks like myself who has been passed up by the Religious Order.

In my own study, I believe most of the disciples didn't understand who Jesus was until after His resurrection. They mostly saw Him as a Rabbi.

Peter recognized Christ, but Jesus stated that Peter's revelation was divine (Mt 16:17, KJV).

(John 20:26 [KJV]) And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him,

My Lord and my God

.

It was at this point, at least for Thomas, where the light went off. Jesus was more than a Rabbi.

JESUS was called Rabi/Raboni by people. This means teacher.

In a couple fo posts I have seen people say that JESUS was a travelling teacher. That this was a position within the religeous community.

In essence, JESUS was licensed to preach by some man made religious order that gave HIM HIS authority. It is because of this authority that HE was allowed to preach in the temple

This seemed to be the foundation for the idea of HIM having a vocation as a traveling teacher.

I believe JESUS was not associated with any religeous order and did not have any religeous group behind HIM.

HE was allowed to teach in the temple because the people had declared HIM a teacher sent from GOD and the religeous leaders of the day feared the people. In addition, they had a desire to give HIM enough rope to hang HIMSELF, which HE never did.

I mentioned this verse, John 7:15, where the jews said, "How does HE know the scriptures, since HE hasn't been trained"

It seems odd to me tht this statement would be made and then HIS training be acknowledged for the purpose of speaking in the temple.

So, I am wondering, how many orthodadox, believing Chritians believe that JESUS was part of an organized religion that gave HIM authority to preach in the temple?

If you believe this, can you tell me what church or seminary might have taught it to you. I am curious if it is a wide spread belief or limited to a particular church denomination or seminary.

Thank you.

Edited October 19, 2008 by KC02

[Guest shiloh357]

What many of you do not understand is that "Rabbi" is not a title of respect, nor is it a term of endearment. It is not really different than other earned academic titles such as "Dr." or "Professor."

The title of "Rabbi" is an earned academic title. That means you HAVE to go to school to get it. It is not something people call you to be nice. Being called a "Rabbi" is not a compliment. It acknowledges your learned proficiency as Torah teacher. Christians really, really need to be more in touch with the historical context of Scripture.

When SOME of the Pharisees accused Jesus of being unlearned, you have to understand the culture.

Jesus was a Galilean. Galileans were the blue collar people of ancient Israel. Galilee was a very poor region in comparison with those who lived in the southern region around Jerusaelm.

The Galilean Rabbis were considered shoddy and were basically mocked by the more affluent and somewhat aristrocatic Rabbis and religious leaders in the southern regions in Judea. The seminaries in Jerusalem were considered of much better quality and those who graduated from those seminaries were considered of much higher quality and far more educated than their Galilean counterparts.

I would also point out something to those who keep harping on the verse where they claim that Jesus was uneducated: Those were Jesus' ENEMIES who were making that claim. How can ANY person who claims to love Jesus accept the testimony of His enemies who also hired false witnesses against Him at His trial???

Jesus was well versed in the Talmud and many things He said echo talmudic teachings.

Oh and one other thing: In ancient Israel, there were nine orders of Pharisees. ALL Rabbis belonged to ONE of those orders. That includes Jesus. But for so long, the Pharisees in particular and the Jews in general, have been seen as the "villains" of the New Testament. Most of the Pharisees were not the antagonists that Christianity has misunderstood them to be.

The term "Pharisee" has become a term Christians like to use as a derogatory label. The problem is that the "Pharisees" were not a monolith. Not of all of the Pharisees were hypocrites, not all of them were evil and self-righteous and not all of them hated Jesus. Jesus had both His supporters and his detractors among them. You cannot pigeon-hole the Pharisees as being "this or that" any more than you do that with all Christians.

The problem with modern Christianity is that it is basically out of touch with real life in ancient Israel. It seems that many Christians think there were about 30-40 guys called "Pharisees" who hated Jesus and went around harrassing Him during His earthly ministry and plotted to kill Him.

The truth is that the Pharisees comprised of nine orders and tens of thousands in number were the largest religious sect in 1st century Israel and the only one to survive the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. In fact, modern Judaism is what Pharisaism turned into after the destruction of the Temple.

[traveller]

Shiloh - at what age did the students begin their studies? Also - who were the Sadducees? (sp)

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh - at what age did the students begin their studies? Also - who were the Sadducees? (sp)

Orthodox Jewish people today, as in ancient times, begin very early to teach their children Torah and Hebrew. They are studying Talmud by age 10. Often by that age, Orthodox children will be fluent in Hebrew and Yiddish as well as their mother tongue depending on what country they are born in.

As for the Sadducees, they were generally an aristrocractic group of Jews, and in 1st century Israel, they were basically the puppet "priests" of the Roman government. They were already in operation during the Maccabean revolt, but did participate on either side of it.

By the first century, they were not of the legitimate Aaronic/Zadokite line. They were more or less the liberal, "reformed" Jews of their day. They tended toward Hellenism, which set them at odds with the Pharisees who saw hellenism as a threat. The Saducees did not believe in the inspiration of the OT but only accepted the five books of the Torah as being from God. They did not believe in angels and did not believe in a resurrection, but rather that the soul dies with the body.

As with the Pharisees, they were not all antagonists of Jesus. In fact, many of them reportedly got saved in Acts 6:7.

[Guest HIS girl]

So Shiloh, anyone could send their sons to these schools? Even the poor?

[Guest HIS girl]

Remember He was teaching at the age of 12? (When Joseph and Mary were looking for Him).

Sorry folks, I am in error here where I said "Jesus was teaching at age 12".

It says in Luke 2 vv46,47:

Now so it was that after three days they(Mary and Joseph)found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.

And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.

In Luke 2 v 40 it says: And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon Him.

Matthew 7vv28,29: And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching,

for He taught them as one having authority and not as the scribes.

After Jesus was tempted by satan - Luke 4 vv14,15:

Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee and the news of Him went out through all the surrounding region.

And He taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.

NKJ Study Bible - notes on Luke 4 v16

The Synagogue originated during the Exile, when the Jews were seperated from the temple services in Jerusalem. It was both a religious and educational indtitution. A member or a visitor who was judged worthy was frequently asked to read Scripture amd make appropriate comments.

Luke 4v16: So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read.

[Guest HIS girl]

In Acts 25 v 5, it mentions the sect of the Nazarenes and in Judges 16 v 17, it says Samson was a Nazorite. Is that a different thing?