Grease The Palm

[AnotherTraveler]

Last Sunday my pastor talked about something that happened when he was a bible school teacher and a female student told him this. Readers Digest version true story...

She was in a marriage relationship and one day out of the blue her husband left and took the car and left her with no means of support and all the bills. Including the car. So she was planning on attending this bible school and she packed and went, not knowing how she would make it. She got to the town where the bible college was situated and found a part time job as a cashier in a local bank. She barely had enough money to live on. But one day she stuck her old bank card in an ATM and entered the pin. She expected it to be rejected. But it was validated and she was in the account she and her husband once shared. I guess they were by now legally separated. But the account had a large sum of money in it. She did an internal diagnostics on the situation and decided that she would not touch the money which her husband had access to and had obviously been making deposits etc. She felt that she was honoring God in so doing and sure enough a couple days later her bank manager called her in and said she was doing good work and gave her more hours. She felt that was a good response from heaven. More work for her keep.

I thought about it a few times this week and I think it was a debatable issue. The husband left her high and dry and even left her with all the debt. Now she has his number and could take money from this account. At least until he wised up to the fact. It is a fact they are still married. I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please. I think perhaps she would have been blessed either way. After all it was technically her money too.

I never said the woman in question heard from God in a direct sense..she answered a conscience that gave her the intuit that she should leave the account alone. But then, why try to open it in the first place? (If you were not planning to use it)

Is curiosity a virtue? Or is it a temptation?

At some point you will have to decide what it is that you are really trying to say. You start by saying that She felt that she was honoring God, but if it was you I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please., and then you said I never said the woman in question heard from God in a direct sense..she answered a conscience that gave her the intuit , and then finally you indicate that it might be temptation Or is it a temptation????

While stating that After all it was technically her money too., you go on to state that you would have taken the money, you make it sound like there is an ethical issue here (there isn't, it's her's legally, to do with whatever she wants to do), stating that you would have taken the money, yet you question if it is temptation? To top it all off, you think she would have been blessed either way! So choices have no consequences? Decisions are approved and rewarded by God, even if it is temptation, and even if a person docides to do the opposite of what she thinks is honoring of God?

[LadyRaven]

Last Sunday my pastor talked about something that happened when he was a bible school teacher and a female student told him this. Readers Digest version true story...

She was in a marriage relationship and one day out of the blue her husband left and took the car and left her with no means of support and all the bills. Including the car. So she was planning on attending this bible school and she packed and went, not knowing how she would make it. She got to the town where the bible college was situated and found a part time job as a cashier in a local bank. She barely had enough money to live on. But one day she stuck her old bank card in an ATM and entered the pin. She expected it to be rejected. But it was validated and she was in the account she and her husband once shared. I guess they were by now legally separated. But the account had a large sum of money in it. She did an internal diagnostics on the situation and decided that she would not touch the money which her husband had access to and had obviously been making deposits etc. She felt that she was honoring God in so doing and sure enough a couple days later her bank manager called her in and said she was doing good work and gave her more hours. She felt that was a good response from heaven. More work for her keep.

I thought about it a few times this week and I think it was a debatable issue. The husband left her high and dry and even left her with all the debt. Now she has his number and could take money from this account. At least until he wised up to the fact. It is a fact they are still married. I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please. I think perhaps she would have been blessed either way. After all it was technically her money too.

Technically, it would only be half hers. Provided it was a community property state and provided that she was left on the account they shared. And, if they were legally separated, nothing he deposited in there since the separation would count.

I would not have touched it. I do not believe it would be stealing if you are still legally married as you cannot steal marital property and money is marital property...unless the legal separation stipulated things. Then you have to go by the stipulations of the separation.

Now she could have gotten some of it in the end, and her restraint would have shown good character. I would have sue for some of it in court during the divorce. And, if I was still listed on the account, I could have procured the deposit history. If not, I would have demanded my lawyer do so. Much else would have been seen by the courts in a negative light.

[Poindexter]

Last Sunday my pastor talked about something that happened when he was a bible school teacher and a female student told him this. Readers Digest version true story...

She was in a marriage relationship and one day out of the blue her husband left and took the car and left her with no means of support and all the bills. Including the car. So she was planning on attending this bible school and she packed and went, not knowing how she would make it. She got to the town where the bible college was situated and found a part time job as a cashier in a local bank. She barely had enough money to live on. But one day she stuck her old bank card in an ATM and entered the pin. She expected it to be rejected. But it was validated and she was in the account she and her husband once shared. I guess they were by now legally separated. But the account had a large sum of money in it. She did an internal diagnostics on the situation and decided that she would not touch the money which her husband had access to and had obviously been making deposits etc. She felt that she was honoring God in so doing and sure enough a couple days later her bank manager called her in and said she was doing good work and gave her more hours. She felt that was a good response from heaven. More work for her keep.

I thought about it a few times this week and I think it was a debatable issue. The husband left her high and dry and even left her with all the debt. Now she has his number and could take money from this account. At least until he wised up to the fact. It is a fact they are still married. I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please. I think perhaps she would have been blessed either way. After all it was technically her money too.

I never said the woman in question heard from God in a direct sense..she answered a conscience that gave her the intuit that she should leave the account alone. But then, why try to open it in the first place? (If you were not planning to use it)

Is curiosity a virtue? Or is it a temptation?

At some point you will have to decide what it is that you are really trying to say. You start by saying that She felt that she was honoring God, but if it was you I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please., and then you said I never said the woman in question heard from God in a direct sense..she answered a conscience that gave her the intuit , and then finally you indicate that it might be temptation Or is it a temptation????

While stating that After all it was technically her money too., you go on to state that you would have taken the money, you make it sound like there is an ethical issue here (there isn't, it's her's legally, to do with whatever she wants to do), stating that you would have taken the money, yet you question if it is temptation? To top it all off, you think she would have been blessed either way! So choices have no consequences? Decisions are approved and rewarded by God, even if it is temptation, and even if a person docides to do the opposite of what she thinks is honoring of God?

I also said "I thought about it a few times this week and I think it was a debatable issue." Admittedly, the burden of support in this thread is that finances of the husband are somehow now his to keep entirely irregardless of the fact that he disbarred his own wife in a veto of any legal or moral recognition of his benevolence towards her. I am pointing the flashlight on the fact they were married. I "assumed" they were legally separated. I do not know that. I did assume the woman had not "heard from God" and even would subscribe to the idea that if she were "led to go take a look" then it just may have been God giving her that unction. I guess I am saying I have had a lot of room for redress of the spiritual cognition around financial blessing of late. For it does appear to be the wisdom of men that allocates that type of growth. For all I ever see is pastors getting rich. And I have sincerely tried the agenda as presented for 12 years. The reason my "angst" was raised in regard to this situation is because the faithful are always the last to ever get financial assistance. The ex husband becomes in my mind at least, the arbiter of all injustices. For the equation always seems to be that in honoring God the supposition of a fat pay check or an easily handled financial dilemma falls short in real terms. This case sees a young woman scorned and after having an opportunity to "get even" and get a little of the cream that was her due, she of her own insistence relegates herself to the banker's whim. In real terms any money she could have withdrawn would have been short lived and I feel she would have gotten the raise anyways.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Poindexter

[AnotherTraveler]

For all I ever see is pastors getting rich.

There are so many tens of thousands of faithful, hardworking, under paid (or not paid at all) servants that serve the Lord faithfully, handling the Word of God faithfully, watching over the flock, that never even seek money, nor recognition and these are all around us, but they are not blowing their own horn, they are to buzy actually doing the Lord's work.

Sure, there are famous, there are rich, there are admired men and women that have the title pastor, and being rich, famous, and admired doesn't mean they are evil, but it should certainly give us pause, cause us to look closer, to listen sharper, because Jesus was none of those things, and those that follow Him closely will be like Him.

[Poindexter]

For all I ever see is pastors getting rich.

There are so many tens of thousands of faithful, hardworking, under paid (or not paid at all) servants that serve the Lord faithfully, handling the Word of God faithfully, watching over the flock, that never even seek money, nor recognition and these are all around us, but they are not blowing their own horn, they are to buzy actually doing the Lord's work.

Sure, there are famous, there are rich, there are admired men and women that have the title pastor, and being rich, famous, and admired doesn't mean they are evil, but it should certainly give us pause, cause us to look closer, to listen sharper, because Jesus was none of those things, and those that follow Him closely will be like Him.

I have never personally met a poor pastor...oh I did one time sorry.

[Iryssa]

I have never personally met a poor pastor...oh I did one time sorry.

Every one of the pastors and lay ministers who poured their hearts into my old church lived below the poverty line (but they are certainly rich in spirit). It does still happen.

Anyway, I think the woman did right...those little naggings in our consciences? I've often found the Holy Spirit uses those to direct us on the path He wants us to take. While legally she could have used it and would not have been stealing, sometimes we are led to rise even above what is legally right.

I do think that if the unfaithful husband wanted any kind of short-term guarantee that the money wasn't going to be used, he should have opened up a new account for himself...but obviously he hadn't been thinking straight about a few things.

[LadyRaven]

You know, when I gave my answer, I wasn't giving a 'what would be universal justice' answer. Cause frankly, justice, to me is much different.

See my husband cheated on me when he was in Korea on a year long assignment. I have reason to believe, but could never prove, that he did it for years before that. He also used pornography and made a few half hearted attempts to stop to keep me around.

I left my position in the AF to have children and homeschool them. I was a SAHM, working part time periodically when things were bad, but usually my income got ate up in taxes so I eventually stopped doing that. When we divorced, one son was in 4th grade, the other in Kindergarten.

Biblically, I do not believe that he is free to remarry. But he did. To the other woman. That never should have happened IMO. See, all he did was stay out of fellowship for the year it took to divorce and remarry, then they came before a new church as man and wife. I believe if he did not repent and leave her alone he should have faced church discipline and at that time he should have been told that either he reconcile with me before I remarried, or he would have to remain unmarried for the rest of his life or face the same discipline. They should have never been allowed to be recognised as a legitimate married couple in the church. But they are. And frankly I just did not have the vindictiveness to do anything about it. Years before that, I would have, but in the end sometimes life isn't fair and getting even isn't necessarily the best thing.

Also, I had to stop homeschooling and put my children in school, I had to work and we live below the poverty line and did so ever since we divorced. The only thing that I got to chose from this was the fact that *I* filed for the divorce (he would have left and filed a year later if I hadn't and if I had stayed and demanded that he do so as well since we were living in military housing, it would have been just awful) instead of him and made him at fault for it.

If things were just, he would have had to support me in the manner I had been used to before the divorce, which meant he should have had to give me enough that I never had to work outside the home other than for things that came up now and again and I should have been able to continue homeschooling. I should have never had to give up my dreams and my life because he sinned. Why is it that the injured party is the one who has her life turned upside down? He got to remarry, he got to continue doing what he loved to do, continue all his hobbies, and he got the other woman too. That is just not fair.

And if I had been in that woman's position, with my history behind me and I found that money, I would have taken it unless my lawyer told me not to do it. Not necessarily right or smart but that's what I feel would have been just.

(The Lord has brought some justice to my exhusband, in this lifetime, and I have learned to be content, but...I was speaking of the time right at the divorce and shortly after...)

[Guest]

[Poindexter]

You know, when I gave my answer, I wasn't giving a 'what would be universal justice' answer. Cause frankly, justice, to me is much different.

See my husband cheated on me when he was in Korea on a year long assignment. I have reason to believe, but could never prove, that he did it for years before that. He also used pornography and made a few half hearted attempts to stop to keep me around.

I left my position in the AF to have children and homeschool them. I was a SAHM, working part time periodically when things were bad, but usually my income got ate up in taxes so I eventually stopped doing that. When we divorced, one son was in 4th grade, the other in Kindergarten.

Biblically, I do not believe that he is free to remarry. But he did. To the other woman. That never should have happened IMO. See, all he did was stay out of fellowship for the year it took to divorce and remarry, then they came before a new church as man and wife. I believe if he did not repent and leave her alone he should have faced church discipline and at that time he should have been told that either he reconcile with me before I remarried, or he would have to remain unmarried for the rest of his life or face the same discipline. They should have never been allowed to be recognised as a legitimate married couple in the church. But they are. And frankly I just did not have the vindictiveness to do anything about it. Years before that, I would have, but in the end sometimes life isn't fair and getting even isn't necessarily the best thing.

Also, I had to stop homeschooling and put my children in school, I had to work and we live below the poverty line and did so ever since we divorced. The only thing that I got to chose from this was the fact that *I* filed for the divorce (he would have left and filed a year later if I hadn't and if I had stayed and demanded that he do so as well since we were living in military housing, it would have been just awful) instead of him and made him at fault for it.

If things were just, he would have had to support me in the manner I had been used to before the divorce, which meant he should have had to give me enough that I never had to work outside the home other than for things that came up now and again and I should have been able to continue homeschooling. I should have never had to give up my dreams and my life because he sinned. Why is it that the injured party is the one who has her life turned upside down? He got to remarry, he got to continue doing what he loved to do, continue all his hobbies, and he got the other woman too. That is just not fair.

And if I had been in that woman's position, with my history behind me and I found that money, I would have taken it unless my lawyer told me not to do it. Not necessarily right or smart but that's what I feel would have been just.

(The Lord has brought some justice to my exhusband, in this lifetime, and I have learned to be content, but...I was speaking of the time right at the divorce and shortly after...)

A long and well thought out reply based upon personal experience and spiritual intuit. Few on the forums are so ready to wear their heart on their sleeve. I thank you for pointing out that life is not fair. It seems to be especially so for the believers. Because now is the time to die to self with great effort. I am sure the day of vindication does come.

2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2Th 1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[yesult]

Last Sunday my pastor talked about something that happened when he was a bible school teacher and a female student told him this. Readers Digest version true story...

She was in a marriage relationship and one day out of the blue her husband left and took the car and left her with no means of support and all the bills. Including the car. So she was planning on attending this bible school and she packed and went, not knowing how she would make it. She got to the town where the bible college was situated and found a part time job as a cashier in a local bank. She barely had enough money to live on. But one day she stuck her old bank card in an ATM and entered the pin. She expected it to be rejected. But it was validated and she was in the account she and her husband once shared. I guess they were by now legally separated. But the account had a large sum of money in it. She did an internal diagnostics on the situation and decided that she would not touch the money which her husband had access to and had obviously been making deposits etc. She felt that she was honoring God in so doing and sure enough a couple days later her bank manager called her in and said she was doing good work and gave her more hours. She felt that was a good response from heaven. More work for her keep.

I thought about it a few times this week and I think it was a debatable issue. The husband left her high and dry and even left her with all the debt. Now she has his number and could take money from this account. At least until he wised up to the fact. It is a fact they are still married. I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please. I think perhaps she would have been blessed either way. After all it was technically her money too.

I would have prayed about it and if God said fine - cleaned the lot out. But if he said no, I would have just trusted him. And left the justice that needed to be paid out to the guy in Gods hands.