Reasons to Believe

[MorningGlory]

And you both seriously need to open a book.

I did plenty of that in college, thank you.

Well obviously none of Wicca, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Jesus being real does not give you an edge up.

This isn't a contest, Alleria. No Christian gains anything by arguing mythology with you. I'm only concerned for your soul, as H.G. is, I'm sure.

And if you're so concerned for my soul, how about showing some basic respect for another human being? All I've gotten from either of you is ridicule and insults; I get that you disagree with my religion; that's fine. But does every debate have to degenerate into you ridiculing my religion? I've been respectful of you and your beliefs for the most part (obviously I've gotten angry a few times but I always apologize) but from you I've yet to see any of the love, concern or respect that your religion is supposed to teach. All I've seen is yet another ignorant, ethno centric Christian trying to prove that they're right by putting other people down.

You aren't Wicca, the organization; you are a Wiccan. The disrespect is aimed at the false religion. You don't automatically get respect in the real world anyway, Alleria, you have to give in order to get. You should be aware also that 'ethnocentric' means a belief that one's ETHNIC group is superior to others. Has nothing to do with faith or religion. I'm sure you will throw yourself on the ground and cry about this being an 'insult' but....oh well. Your 'ignorant' comment, above, has been reported since it is a violation of the TOS.

[Guest HIS girl]

And a question; if you don't believe in Jesus being a diety, but believe in God, you'll still go to hell? Who's the god then, Jesus or God? I'm confused, because you seem to be saying that you have to worship Jesus AND God...which is polytheistic. But I'm sure I'm misunderstanding, so if you could maybe explain this for me?

John 10 v 30:

"I and My Father are one." - Jesus, NKJ

Jesus was God on Earth in the flesh.

There is one God.

Christianity is not polytheism and never was or will be - you need to check the correct meaning of the word.

John 1 v 1 : In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God and the Word was God. NKJ (brackets my own).

If you believe Jesus was only a man and NOT God, then that's rejecting what He claimed to be.

You however Alleria, have difficulty accepting the fact that Jesus was man and walked this Earth period. You have mentioned that and you say it hasn't been proven.

I have already shown you many posts ago that it has been proven.

I'm not willing to play the merry-go-round game with you Alleria - as I can it's not benefiting anyone at this stage.

[Guest]

I don\'t believe in your god, but believe in my own. You can\'t say my gods don\'t exist with certainty as there is no more proof that my gods are fake then there is proof yours is real. So the last part of my sentence is as correct as your sentence.

To Keep Track Of The Existence And The Proofs Of The Spiritual World

It Helps If You Have The Real BOOK

And God Given Faith

To Believe

Jesus

The Real

The Real Pretender

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart,

I will ascend into heaven,

I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:12-15

Meets The Real God

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations

which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,

where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:7-10

And Is Really Gone

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie:

but they which are written in the Lamb\'s book of life. Revelation 21:27

Really

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.

I am the root and the offspring of David,

and the bright and morning star. Revelation 22:16

Believe

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come.

And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Alleria,

I see that you've stated that you believe Jesus was a real man who walked the earth.

I wanted to ask if you believe He was a Good man and taught Good ideas and was a Good teacher or a teacher of the Light.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest shiloh357]

I know I'm not Wicca, I realize I'm a Wiccan. But that's like insulting Caucasians and then saying that disrespect isn't aimed at white people.

No, that is not the same thing. Caucasians are white. Caucasian is not a religion or organization, Wicca is. Criticizing the Wiccan belief system is not the same thing as saying that all people who participate are bad people. Try using a little intellectual honesty.

And ethnocentric means a belief that one's cultural group is superior; its a sociogical term meaning to believe one's group is superior/more correct.

No, that is not the chief meaning of the term. You are wrong. Ethnocentric is racial superiority. The culture does come into play, but that secondary, not primary.

For example, when Canadians think that, say, African tribes have odd practises, or when Christians think that pagans have odd practises. Its all ethnocentrism.

You cannot separate the cultural from the primary ethnic aspect of the word.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Yes, I do believe Jesus was a good person who did good things and probably only wanted to help people. I think that's why so many people loved and followed him; he was probably a very nice person, charismatic, who appealed to the poor people of the area because he offered them something they didn't currently have; hope for a better life when they died.

Do you believe that He was the Son of God as He claimed?

Peace,

Dave

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Alleria,

I wanted to finish my line of thought for your sake since it is Christmas. The greatest present anyone could give on this day is Jesus. It's a beautiful name and He's a wonderful Savior. God sent Him for you and even if there was only you, He would have come.

Here's the thing, Jesus claimed that He was the Son of God and even more God come in the flesh, the very I AM, the God whom Created it all.

He had much to say about daily life and how it should be lived in the world but His Chief message was one of Salvation, your Salvation. He preached that people should repent for the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. He was the embodiment of that Kingdom and He claimed that He was more than the only begotten Son of God but God Himself, the very God of the Jews, the God of Heaven and earth. He claimed to be the fulifllment of the scriptures that stated that He was Emmanuel, God with us.

You have stated that He was a good man with good intentions and that He had good things to say and even gave people Hope. Yet you appear to not believe Him. There are only two conclussions one can come to and they can't be juxtaposed. Either He was a Good man who taught Good things and gave people Hope, or He was the worst sort of liar and a lunatic on par with the man who walks down the street proclaiming himself to be a boiled parsnip.

He can' be Good and have Good things to say and teach and even bribng Hope if He is a lair.

The Word of God and Jesus Himself say this;

Mt

[MorningGlory]

And what ignorant comment; the one where I said you should read about a topic before making sweeping claims?

This one:

"All I've seen is yet another ignorant, ethno centric Christian trying to prove that they're right by putting other people down."

How about insults? Are those a violation of the rules?

Yes; read the Terms of Service that we ALL agreed to when we joined.

[rstrats]

pokemaughan,

OK, as a nonbeliever I just read your OP. Now what?

[pokemaughan]

pokemaughan,

OK, as a nonbeliever I just read your OP. Now what?

Depends on what you mean by 'now what'.

The point of these little essays and things is to 'pre-evangelize', or remove obstacles from the Gospel. If you're ready to hear the Good News, that's what's next.