NOT 4 the Faint of Heart

[WISDOM]

Trust me Ron...been there, done that.  

In my case (in a similar backslidden condition), I was a miserable Christian for 5 years. :x:  It wasn't the church's fault...it was mine.

Brother, I don't think miserable comes close to describing it! Ya know, I never would've denied the fundamental truths of the Christian faith during that time. As a matter of fact, I would have defended them to the death-literally. I was just too busy trying to do my own thing to find time for the Lord. There were times I would get things going again, pray for a few days straight, read the Bible, but the next day back to the world again I went.

This last time, however, God wasn't going to let me go! I was allowed to go through some rough trials that were either going to make me or break me. Things that MADE me go search the Scriptures and MADE me have to go to church and be with fellow believers. God showed me in no uncertain terms just how precious my salvation actually was. He allowed to go through periods where that Satan would have me convinced God had given up on me-what a terrible feeling to think you've lost out with God! But, He was there all the time and I wouldn't take anything for what I have with Him!!!

....like I said Ronald, I TRULY do understand your plight. I was there also at one time, and much of what you wrote is almost scary for me to read....almost a carbon copy.

[WISDOM]

As I read through this thread, agreeing, thinking of many of my own experiences growing up in a small town attending a fundalmentalist Pentecostal church... I can recall hearing many sermons on this subject, and for a reason. It would be nice to think of the church as being a refuge from the weekly onslought of the world. If all were truly focused on their own one on one relationship with God, there would be no time for critical looks, thoughts or comments about others who seek Him.

<Sigh>.... But , you know, people are people. Some things just don't change, it seems that whenever a group of people get together it turns into highschool all over again. Clique's develop; the rich kids, the popular kids; the guys from vo-tech; the nerds; the jocks and the outcasts.

We were one of the outcast families, not having lived in that area long and not having the wealth that some of the others did. I can remember families who were struggling because they tried so hard to keep up with the 'rich families', by buying cadilacs and lincoln town-cars... Why did they do this? I guess it is just a basic human desire to be accepted by others.

Being the practicle person I am, I always ask myself... 'Who are you trying to impress?' 'Who are you looking to for approval?' ...Of course the answer is God. He is the one I want to approve of me. He is the one I want to be proud of me. So who cares what people may say or think of me... It's God's opinion that counts, live to serve Him, not them. As for those who choose to sit and be critical of material items, well I feel sorry for them. They have been deceived and are truly missing out, say a prayer and forgive them... What else can you do?

kittyjo:

If it hasn't already been done, Welcome to the WorthyBoard!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can sense in your post that there is still some pain as you regressed in thought. It is my hope and prayer that our FATHER has (and still does) used you as a LIGHT for others to see these things, and ask our LORD to change their hearts.

Good point about the "cliques". Even today in my church I see it not just with the youth, but with many adults too. Unfortunately also, I've watch some of them negatively impact visitors to our church. I have addressed it .

You are so right kittyjo.....if our focus is on CHRIST, and we have a servant's attitude, it causes positive internal changes. We should enjoy fellowshiping with one another in HIS presence, because of what HE's done for each of us individually. We all have a testimony. We were all individually snatched from an eternal death, when we asked CHRIST to become our SAVIOUR. Problem is......many of us quickly forget.

[WISDOM]

Dear Wisdom,

Although I do agree as a whole with what you have posted, I do feel very compelled to be sure to remind the flock to be mindful as well.

Do YOU remember that no matter how good a person believes themself to be, or how bad off they think they are, CHRIST extends HIS arms to envelop them, if they choose to receive HIS message of forgiveness?

We must remember that not everyone that comes into the flock is there to receive.....sometimes there are those sent in to divide and trouble them as well. You must be discerning. We also must remember that we would treat no one any different than we would treat our own family. Are there ones coming in, merely to show rebellion by their dress? And do you contend for the flock, in terms of your children? What I mean is this, we'd better be sure that we are changing the world, lest the world change us. Is your church becoming the world, or is the world becoming as a church???

The reason I mention these things is I think of our children. Do we allow our daughters to dress immodestly when they enter the Lord's house? If not, then we'd better be clear about why it is acceptable for some, but not for others. If a woman cannot dress to cover her indecency, then provide for her. Set an example. But remember to ask and care no less for them, as you would for your own, then you are being condescending, are you not? Speak the Truth in love, help to guide and set others free, but remember, you have children, who will follow the example of rebellion if not lead in the direction of righteousness.

I am not saying look down your nose. I am saying for goodness sake, care about others, as you would yourself, your own children. Do not say, "oh they do not have enough money to dress decently for church", and then walk away??? Help them, encourage them, train them in righteousness. LOVE THEM AS YOUR OWN!!!

I'm sure I'll get an earful now! But, that's ok, it's hard to be understood through typed out words.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Suzanne..... , anyone who gets upset about your post here is NOT reading it under the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT! I know (as well as many others reading this) EXACTLY what you were saying. Personally, I concur with everything you pointed out. My wife has VERY SIMILAR feelings.

I have always thought it better for a woman to address another woman concerning her attire. Befriend a person first (if they will allow you to), and ask GOD for open doors of communication AND understanding. It is important to remember that YOU and I haven't walked a mile in that individual's shoes, so we have no idea what has brought them to the point they're at.

You are so right about contending with the flock concerning one's children, but under the discerning power of the HOLY SPIRIT. Just because it's faddish/fashionable doesn't mean it is APPROPRIATE! You don't wait until you're about to go to the House of GOD to "set examples". This is an ongoing process, which starts in the greatest educational institution in the world.....YOUR home. I strongly agree with your thoughts here. If your Christianity isn't practical, it will eventually show through. You cannot be a saint publicly, and a demon behind closed doors.

This is going to sound a bit strong, but I hate a condescending attitude. It is the fastest way to turn me off with a person. So I agree with your comment above. More seekers of CHRIST have been turned off because of this. We need to be careful of the choice of words we use with others (saved/unsaved), and how we deliver them. Misunderstandings or "high-and-mighty" verbage can lead to hurt feelings and/or rejection. Personally, I try to always ask for GOD's leading/understanding of things I hear/witness BEFORE I open my mouth. Once words are said YOU can never call them back. How they impact depends on the "receiver".

Great post Suzanne! Enjoyed the inference behind it, Sis!!

[WISDOM]

Hey Wisdom,

this thread is really good, thanks for starting it. I will share what my husband and I have experienced. It never had to do with clothes or background, but perhaps more sinister.

We have been christian for 8 years. Got saved in a church in B.C. stayed for 3 years. Were loved and accepted, grew and loved the Lord.

We moved back east and wham.........One church after another, after another. Started thinking that it was "OUR STINKING THINKIN". Had to really question wether or not we were looking for what we had, and wouldn't settle for anything else.

Turns out that we spent alot of time "OUT" of the church, and only by the grace of God we didn't backslide.

You see the problem that we were confronted with was "CONTROL". It was the elders in the church that were controlling the service. Some of the churches we attended were trying to press in, but overall they were dead. It was like God removed Himself.

It was during this time that I grew leaps and bounds. I couldn't understand at the time why God was allowing us to go through this. Funny thing in every church my family was greeted with open arms. We were made to feel welcome, but deep down inside it made me uncomfortable. I started to see that I didn't want to be "Accepted", because it only meant that they thought you were like them! On their side. Not going to rock the boat so to speak.

We have since moved back to BC. Tried to attend the church we were saved in, and found that it has more issues than the ones in Ontario. We have started attending a new church about a month ago. We both feel led to stay there. They love the Lord. The building is filled with all kinds of people. They have a vision so huge for the lost, and the youth that it blesses our socks off. You can already see the evidence of it in their congregation.

Through all of this my family has become grown spiritually, and personally. It has built character and integrity. Our hearts ache not only for the "LOST", but for the many, many wounded wandering around in "CHURCH". Sometimes I feel like it's a regular war zone. I have often sensed a spirit of Jezebel over the church. WE NEED PRAYER WARRIOR'S like never before. Raise up the WATCHMEN oh LORD.

Blessings,

Karen

You know Karen, while I was reading your thread the SPIRIT brought back a thought in my mind I hadn't had in years.

One of the most enjoyable times of fellowship I ever had in my life (to this day) was a home study group in Puerto Rico (separate from my Wed/Sun church services). I was in the Navy stationed there for 3 years. When I was first invited by a fellow Christian, the truth is I thought it was going to be something real corny and superficial.

Instead, the love and warmth I received there (and teaching) was the most genuine I've ever gotten to this day. I cannot put into words how much the love shared with those brothers/sisters shaped/honed me spirtually.

What was ironic is we all attended different fellowships, and some were denominational.....others (like myself still) non-denominational. The most important thing we shared was our love both for our LORD/SAVIOUR and each other. And this was a simple once a week home study group!

As I write this I realize what a wonderful period of time that was in my spirtual walk. The CHURCH truly is where 2 or 3 are gathered in HIS NAME. HE was there right in our midst! (Matthew 18:20) I didn't only read/study the Word.....I saw the beauty of the Word in action. Love is a verb, and a verb IS an action word!

[WISDOM]

refugepsa91:

Sis......YOU have a beautiful spirit!

[WISDOM]

OK - here comes my 2 cents worth. 

When I was a young teen, I was going through a lot of stuff. I was totally angry at God and everyone. I hated me and those around me. I was a spiritual mess. I blamed God for my life being in such a mess. However, I still went to church. Not every week, but some. And when i went I sat alone. Everytime. Unless my brother lowered himself enough to be seen with his sister (    ) I sat all by myself. Apparently, during this time they didn't much like me anymore than I liked them. Imagine that!  Except for one man that continually reached out to me. One man that led a life that I admired and envied. One man that made me feel welcome and seemed to be sincere in seeing me. One man. One man that allowed the love and Light of Christ to shine through. It made a huge impact in my life in later years. I always remembered his joy and his sincerity. It helped me to realize that God is real and I was the one in the wrong. One man.

Sometimes, WE are that one man to someone. Revival starts from within.

OK - start the rock throwin. 

Ohhhhhh Sis, how RIGHT you are!!

All it takes is for one person in the masses to allow the LIGHT of CHRIST to shine through them. Whether we realize it or not, we are all being watched by someone once we proclaim our Christianity.

It may be at work or church. It may be at the ballpark or in the neighborhood.

It may be right in our own home, but SOMEONE is watching YOU to see (in most cases) what makes you so different (unless you are "dimming" or "hiding" your Light).

In the church YOU or I attend, we should be a "lantern" that draws "moths". There should be something positively peculiar about us that draws the interest of others.

There is a lot of stock in JESUS' words here (Matthew 5:14-16). We need to keep them close to our heart, both in our daily living and every Sunday morning, while (and after) in the local church.

GOD called us to not only be "fishers of men", but to be the example that sticks out from the world's way of showing love. Suzanne (tsth) made a strong point in her previous post. Change the world (way of doing things), don't let the world change YOU!

You know I always love to read YOUR post, Sis. Thank you for this one.....simple with a great point!

[RGR]

All it takes is for one person in the masses to allow the LIGHT of CHRIST to shine through them. Whether we realize it or not, we are all being watched by someone once we proclaim our Christianity.

It may be at work or church. It may be at the ballpark or in the neighborhood.

How true, Brother. It's funny how people are looking for us to do wrong. A co-worker of mine is very critical of two people at work who call themselves by the name of Christ. The first person just got fired under bad circumstances that are certainly not Christian like. The other person is very judgemental, talks about people, and likes to gossip. This friend has formed her impression of Christians by these people. She also knows what I was like BEFORE I turned my life back to Christ. I never was really that bad of a person, but there was nothing in my life action wise that spoke of the works of God. She keeps telling me that she's assured I haven't changed and as to how basically she wants to have nothing to do with Christianity due to what she's seen out of these two people. She believes in Christianity per se, but she sees so much hypocritical things that she thinks that she is just as okay in her lifestyle. God help us to be on our best Christian behavior-people are watching!!!

[Guest yod]

about 2 years ago, maybe more, I was going to a non-demoninational church where the Pastor was a friend of mine from way back.

He was a professor at a local Bible college who also had been the local police chaplain and felt such a bond with the officers that he joined the force and became a cop.

When he started this church I heard him say many times about how he wanted to open the doors for all kinds of people from all backgrounds and I believe he was sincere...until he became a cop.

Our church had a large storefront window on it and one day I saw a guy staggering up to look in the window with his shirt open. He was unshaven, dirty, and drunk. Just the kind of person who needs Jesus and I was ecstatic he would choose our little church!

a big dude I had never seen at church before got up and walked outside.....surely to invite him in, right?

No.

He began pushing this guy until he was about 50 yards away. I was in shock! I got up and walked outside as the big guy was walking back in. He said, "It's ok, I took care of it" and I replied, "Yeah..I see"

This drunk guy was yelling and crying as he said, "You call yourselves a church?"

I was in tears by now. I asked him his name (Jazzy Jeff) and told him he was welcome to sit with my family if he would button his shirt so as not to scare the women.

I put my arm around him and began to walk him in. The big guy met me at the door and said Jeff couldn't come in. Now I was mad.

I said loud enough for everyone in the church to hear, "He is coming in or my family is leaving". The pastor, whose name is also Jeff, continued preaching like nothing was happening. There is no way anyone there didn't notice yet many tried to act like it.

When Jazzy Jeff sat down next to me, the big guy came over and told me I would have to make him be quiet. Jeff wasn't even talking!

I stood up.....I pointed at the church and said in a loud strong tone...."You are all naked and you don't even know it"

The pastor kept on like nothing was happening at all....

After the service, half of the people came over and made Jazzy Jeff feel welcome while the other half got out as fast as possible. The pastor again acted like nothing had happened and ignored us.

I gave Jazzy Jeff a ride afterwards to a house where he was working. He was a homeless guy that had been attending a black church (he's white) on the other side of town but was too far to make it today. Oh how I wanted to join his church.

He told me that he had tried to come in earlier and my pastor told him he couldn't come in. Then the pastor had this big guy "take care of it". The big guy was a new believer that had recently gotten out of jail for murder! My pastor had not only denied a homeless drunk from coming in, he had defiled this new believer by making him the church "bouncer"!!!??!!

That was my last day...and my family never went back.

My sons were the leaders of the youth group which died without their presence. It was only a few months later that no one was going to this church and it closed the doors

I take no joy in knowing that I was a part of killing it. I only hope that my pastor learned something....

it still breaks my heart....

:sweating:

[traveller]

Oh yod - I thank the Lord that you are my brother. Thank you for being an example of Christ for others to see.

Do you know what happened to Jeff? Did you ever see him again? :down:

[2bba]

"One of the most hypocritical times of the week starts (in most regions) between 8am - 1pm. It is when most professed Christians attend church on Sundays. What I am about to say may be offensive to some of you, so brace yourselves. Never the less, it is something we all duck out of discussing all too often. In many churches around this country we claim to await the lost with open arms....but, honestly.....do we?"

Great post Wisdom.

We left a church 3