The Christmas story

[kross]

Every year at this time I find myself teaching the difference between "The Christmas Story" and the Biblical acount of JESUS' birth.

I thought I would ask a couple of simple questions here to start us into the Christmas season.

According to the Bible;

1. Did the shepherds look for the star to guide them to the manger?

2. Did Mary give birth when she reached Bethlehem

3. Did three wise men arrive at the manger

4. Did the wise men follow the star to the manger

5. Did angels appear over the manger to greet the messiah

These are very simple questions just for fun.

The answer to all of them is NO.

[jmwhalen]

Every year at this time I find myself teaching the difference between "The Christmas Story" and the Biblical acount of JESUS' birth.

I thought I would ask a couple of simple questions here to start us into the Christmas season.

According to the Bible;

1. Did the shepherds look for the star to guide them to the manger?

2. Did Mary give birth when she reached Bethlehem

3. Did three wise men arrive at the manger

4. Did the wise men follow the star to the manger

5. Did angels appear over the manger to greet the messiah

These are very simple questions just for fun.

The answer to all of them is NO.

____

#3 and #4:

(bold my emphasis)

Consider the traditional story of the so-called "...wise men from the east..."(Matthew 2:1). The traditional "spin" given this story is that 3 wise men arrived on camels and visited the Lord Jesus Christ while he was a baby in a manger with the shepherds looking on. The only part of this statement that is true is that wise men did come from the east(Mt. 2:1)- they came to worship him and present him gifts befitting the King(Mt. 2:11). However, the following facts from the Bible are clear, and these facts need no "MBA from heaven" to understand:

-The Bible does not tell us how many wise men came from the east, nor are they named(the names Gaspar, Melchior, and Balthasar are from legend/tradition). The "3 Wise men" most probably derives from the 3 gifts given to the Lord Jesus Christ of "...gold, frankincense, and myrrh"(Mt. 2:11).

-Nothing in the Bible says that the wise men rode camels on their journey(they most probably rode horses)

- The Bible does not say that the wise men found the "baby Jesus" in a manger with shepherds looking on. In fact, the wise men did not visit the Lord Jesus Christ until most probably, approximately 1-2 years after he was born, and they visited him in a "house", not in the manger(obviously the shepherds were not there)! The reasons:

1. When the arrived they did not find "...the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger"(Luke 2:12). Notice carefully the biblical account given in Mt. 2:8-11:

" And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh."

-notice the Lord Jesus Christ at the time of the wise mens' visit was a "young child"(said 3 times in scripture to emphasize this truth) , not "the babe" of Luke 2:12 whom the shepherds visited

-notice that the wise men visited the Lord Jesus Christ to worship him and present gifts, they did so in "...the house...."(Mt. 2:11), not in the manger

Thus, the scriptural account is that "... the star...."(Mt. 2:9) came over the place where the young child was, not over the place where the baby was. And when the wise men came into the house they saw the young Lord Jesus Christ, the "young child", with Mary his mother(no mention of Joseph)-they did not come into a stable/manger, nor did they see a baby.

It is interesting to note Luke 2::22-24:

" And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons."

It was a requirement of the Mosaic law that a certain # of days had to pass before a new mother could make the required sacrificial offerings to complete the rite of her purification per Leviticus 12:2-8(so much for the "doctrine" that Mary was sinless-apparently no one told Mary!-"...when the days of her PURIFICATION were over..."/"If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be UNCLEAN seven days...."Lev. 12:2)-these laws state that 40 days of purification were required for a male child, and 8 days for a female. The law required that 2 offerings were to be brought to the priest at the temple door. A yearling lamb was to be sacrificed as a burnt-offering unto the LORD, and either a young pigeon or a turtle dove as a sin-offering. If the family was poor and could not afford the yearling lamb, they could substitute 2 turtle doves or 2 young pigeons, one for the burnt-offering and the other for the sin-offering(Lev. 12:8). These requirements show that it was 40 days after the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ that Mary and Joseph came to the temple to present him unto the LORD, and they obviously were poor, because they offered sacrifices for Mary's purification in accordance with the provisions in the law for the poor(just to show that I am an "equal opportunity offender", so much for that "name and claim it"/" prosperity gospel" heresy). I make note of this for the following reason: this indicates that the wise men had not arrived at the time of purification. Had they already arrived, the family would not have had to offer only "...A pair of turtledoves,or two young pigeons"(Luke 2:24)-they would have had the gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh given to them by the wise men!

Also note that Herod murdered all male children "...from two years old and under...."(Mt. 2:16). Both Herod and the wise men calculated the Lord Jesus Christ's birth from "...what time the star appeared...."(Mt. 2:7), i.e., the day Christ was born the star began shining. This explains Mt. 2:16 and the timeline-the wise men were following the star for perhaps 1-2years when they arrived in Jerusalem(not Bethlehem-Mt. 2:1). Thus, when they arrived, the Lord Jesus Christ was a "young child", not a "babe". Herod, to be safe, had all male children under 2 killed-he also believed this "...King of the Jews...."(Mt. 2:2) was "...the young child...."(Mt. 2:8), perhaps as old as 2 years!

"...speaking the truth in love...."(Ephesians 4:15)

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[Leonard]

Every year at this time I find myself teaching the difference between "The Christmas Story" and the Biblical acount of JESUS' birth.

I thought I would ask a couple of simple questions here to start us into the Christmas season.

According to the Bible;

1. Did the shepherds look for the star to guide them to the manger? (No. Angels told them where to go....)

2. Did Mary give birth when she reached Bethlehem (Sometime seemingly very shortly thereafter, but she doesn't seem to have given birth the instant they crossed the city border, no. But this seems rather a 'trick question' to me......)

3. Did three wise men arrive at the manger (No. He was in a home.)

4. Did the wise men follow the star to the manger (No. To the house.)

5. Did angels appear over the manger to greet the messiah (Probably, since the Scripture says the angels were continuously around Him to protect Him, but most people didn't see them......)

These are very simple questions just for fun.

The answer to all of them is NO.

Two of them, are I think partially 'yes'. Can you redirect my memory of Scripture on them. I LOOOOOVE when someone actually beats me at 'Bible Trivia'!

[stacey c]

Is #2 a trick question? What did I miss?

[kross]

Is #2 a trick question? What did I miss?

According to the Bible, she gave birth "while they were there" not "when they arived"

[kross]

Every year at this time I find myself teaching the difference between "The Christmas Story" and the Biblical acount of JESUS' birth.

I thought I would ask a couple of simple questions here to start us into the Christmas season.

According to the Bible;

1. Did the shepherds look for the star to guide them to the manger? (No. Angels told them where to go....)

2. Did Mary give birth when she reached Bethlehem (Sometime seemingly very shortly thereafter, but she doesn't seem to have given birth the instant they crossed the city border, no. But this seems rather a 'trick question' to me......)

3. Did three wise men arrive at the manger (No. He was in a home.)

4. Did the wise men follow the star to the manger (No. To the house.)

5. Did angels appear over the manger to greet the messiah (Probably, since the Scripture says the angels were continuously around Him to protect Him, but most people didn't see them......)

These are very simple questions just for fun.

The answer to all of them is NO.

Two of them, are I think partially 'yes'. Can you redirect my memory of Scripture on them. I LOOOOOVE when someone actually beats me at 'Bible Trivia'!

What two?

[Hunterpoet]

#4 Did the wise men follow the star to the manger?

KJV, Mt. 2:9, When they had heard the king they departed; and lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Please explain, because this verse seems to say that they followed the star?

[kross]

#4 Did the wise men follow the star to the manger?

KJV, Mt. 2:9, When they had heard the king they departed; and lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Please explain, because this verse seems to say that they followed the star?

It lead them to a house and a child, not a manger and an infant. They showed up 2 years later, according to the time frame Herod used for the order to kill the babies.

They did follow a light in the sky that lead them. Called a star for lack of a better interpretation.

[nebula]

I'll give a go at this to see if people's questions are answered, if they haven't been already (the thoughts between posts are getting confusing).

1. Did the shepherds look for the star to guide them to the manger?

No. The angel said to look for a babe wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger, and they found the Lord with just those directions.

It's interesting that they knew where to look with only those directions, huh?

2. Did Mary give birth when she reached Bethlehem

Luke 2:6 -So it was, that while they were there, the days were completed for her to be delivered.

It sounds like it didn't happen right away.

3. Did three wise men arrive at the manger

The number of wise men is unknown.

4. Did the wise men follow the star to the manger

As was mentioned above, it says in Matt. 2 that they came to a house, not the manger.

5. Did angels appear over the manger to greet the messiah

Well, they may have . . . just not manifested physically...and thus not recorded as being there.

[kross]

As the question was stated, "According to the Bible" ;

There is no mention of angels "appearing" over the manger. They might have been around, but they did not put on a show of it, from what we know.

Here is one more that requires extra biblical knowledge;

Why was there no room in the inn (keeping in mind the answers to the previous questions)