Jews and JESUS

[kross]

Peter spoke this to the jews

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

So it seems that this is true for all men....especially the jews since they were told first.

It would be cruel of God to let His Son be crucified if there were another way....

I can see that.

I see, also, that there was no other way to graft in the Gentiles.

As was said previously, I look forward to seeing how it all plays out in the end.

Come LORD JESUS, come.

[Smalcald]

I always think about the number of people including the numbers of Jews and Muslims; who have been shunned from their families, stoned, persecuted, killed, executed and so forth just because they became believers in Christ. I mean I guess we could say, well whoops you didn't really need to convert to Christ there is another path as long as you were born to the right person or family tree.

I don't think so. Why would God let His Son be tortured and killed, if there was salvation without Christ?

Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

That does not change the fact that Jew's are the Chosen people of God, God took the human form of a Jew when He walked the earth, He brought His message to His people the Jew's and this will never change and neither will His prophecy of what will become of Israel. Just think if someone had told Peter or Paul, you know the Gospel that you are preaching will end up converting many of the heathens and pagan nations of Europe, including the Goths and Visigoths and Vikings and weird Celtic Pagans and so forth, I think they would have been astounded. So if we as a gentile Pagan can come to Christ, certainly it will not be out of the question that the entire Jewish people who are much closer to the True God than us Pagans were, can and will be converted to Christ.

[Botz]

Smalcald...Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

Hi Smalcald...could you kindly point out the distinction for me by showing just which god it is you think pious Jews who do not yet know Yeshua as Messiah worship.

[Guest shiloh357]

Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

Smalcald, that is factually and historically false.

Judaism is not a pagan religion that worships some made up deity or idol.

Jews worship the YHVH, the God of the Bible. Any other assertion is100% false. Just becaue they do not recognize Jesus as Messiah does not mean they worship another God.

[kross]

I've gotten a vaige whisper of an answer from those I had hoped to hear from.

I believe that salvation is in JESUS alone. I just wonder about the re-grafting of Israel into the tree and the promise that GOD would never leave them or forsake them and how that fits in with the individuals and the nation.

I guess I will wonder until I see.

Peace to you all and thanks for the input.

[Smalcald]

Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

Smalcald, that is factually and historically false.

Judaism is not a pagan religion that worships some made up deity or idol.

Jews worship the YHVH, the God of the Bible. Any other assertion is100% false. Just becaue they do not recognize Jesus as Messiah does not mean they worship another God.

So those who practice Judaism pray to Christ, worship Him and recognize Him as God? If they do they indeed are worshipping the true God, if they do not they are not worshipping the God of the bible nor are they worshipping the same God we are. Unless we want to go down the road of all paths lead to God, etc.

I don't know, I mean it is probably easier to play down the divinity of Christ in an attempt to convert those who practice Judaism, but I don't think it is wise or honest to do so. Any faith which does not recognize the Divinity of Our Lord and Savior is wrong AND is worshipping a different God than Christians worship.

You cannot remove Christ from God and claim to worship the same God as Christians do, you simply can't; and that is 100% factually correct.

[Smalcald]

Smalcald...Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

Hi Smalcald...could you kindly point out the distinction for me by showing just which god it is you think pious Jews who do not yet know Yeshua as Messiah worship.

Any God that is not Christ is false.

Don't confuse Jews and Judaism. Many devout Jews worship Christ. However, Judaism today does not worship the true God, who is Christ our Lord and Savior. Now they may be devout, just as many Muslims are devout, but when Christ said before Abraham was I AM, He meant it, without Jesus nothing really matters. We cannot forsake our Lord and Savior in an attempt to "make nice" with people who reject Him, we simply cannot do that; we must always speak the truth of His divinity.

Do you believe that the pious Jews, who worship a God that does not include either the Holy Spirit or Christ, will change their conception of God when they are converted? You see just "knowing" Jesus is not being converted to a saving faith in Christ as God as part of the true God, which is the Father Son and Holy Spirit. People who practice Judaism will not simply add on knowledge of Jesus and keep praying the same God after they have come to faith, they will pray to Christ as God, which is who He is.

I am not trying to be hard on Judaism here, there is no doubt that they obviously are very close and we have common roots, but we cannot deny Christ and we cannot deny the radical change that worshipping Christ will impart

.

[Guest shiloh357]

So those who practice Judaism pray to Christ, worship Him and recognize Him as God?

God is made up of three persons Smalcald. They don't believe the person of Jesus as God, but that does not mean that they worship the same God as they do recognize God the Father. Jews are not pagans, they recognize YHVH as Creator and the ONLY true God of the universe. Their blindness to Jesus does not qualify as worshipping another God.

I don't know, I mean it is probably easier to play down the divinity of Christ in an attempt to convert those who practice Judaism, but I don't think it is wise or honest to do so.

No one is downplaying the Divinity of Christ.

Any faith which does not recognize the Divinity of Our Lord and Savior is wrong AND is worshipping a different God than Christians worship.

It is not a case of worshipping a different god. It is case of blindness to full understanding of who Jesus is. If Jesus were the ONLY person in the Godhead, you would have a point. I would agree with you, but they recognize and worship the true and living God despite not understanding Jesus' true identity.

You cannot remove Christ from God and claim to worship the same God as Christians do, you simply can't; and that is 100% factually correct.

No one is doing that. The Jewish people have for nearly 2 millennia been asked to receive a Jesus that is made after the image of a Gentile religion that hates all things Jewish. Their rejection of Christ is as much their own fault as it is the fault of a church that has made Jesus distasteful to them.

[Botz]

Smalcald...Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

Hi Smalcald...could you kindly point out the distinction for me by showing just which god it is you think pious Jews who do not yet know Yeshua as Messiah worship.

Any God that is not Christ is false.

Don't confuse Jews and Judaism. Many devout Jews worship Christ. However, Judaism today does not worship the true God, who is Christ our Lord and Savior. Now they may be devout, just as many Muslims are devout, but when Christ said before Abraham was I AM, He meant it, without Jesus nothing really matters. We cannot forsake our Lord and Savior in an attempt to "make nice" with people who reject Him, we simply cannot do that; we must always speak the truth of His divinity.

Do you believe that the pious Jews, who worship a God that does not include either the Holy Spirit or Christ, will change their conception of God when they are converted? You see just "knowing" Jesus is not being converted to a saving faith in Christ as God as part of the true God, which is the Father Son and Holy Spirit. People who practice Judaism will not simply add on knowledge of Jesus and keep praying the same God after they have come to faith, they will pray to Christ as God, which is who He is.

I am not trying to be hard on Judaism here, there is no doubt that they obviously are very close and we have common roots, but we cannot deny Christ and we cannot deny the radical change that worshipping Christ will impart

.

Hmmm....so up to the time Messiah came, the Jewish people were worshipping who exactly?

(You have already quoted 'before Abraham was I AM'.)

Have we so usurped our Jewish heritage, and strayed so far from our Jewish roots that we now regurgitate their Messiah in such an unrecognizable unpalatable Gentile form, and insist that unless they submit to 'our' version of their Messiah, then they are condemned. Do you honestly think this is G-ds heart and His method to woe His people back whom He longs to come to a place of faith in Messiah Yeshua?

My dear brother you ask...

Do you believe that the pious Jews, who worship a God that does not include either the Holy Spirit or Christ, will change their conception of God when they are converted?

I absolutely believe that when a Jew who has always worshipped G-d, comes to a saving faith in his Messiah Yeshua, it will change their conception radically, just as it did the apostle Paul. But I also believe that many believing Jews will distance themselves from Gentile Christianity because it has become so far removed from the natural olive tree into which by His grace we have been grafted.

Even many people who gladly call themselves 'Christians' and are not adherents of 'replacement theology' still try and dictate their own terms, believing them to be G-ds terms, and inadvertently still display an arrogance that desperately needs to be sifted out of the body of Messiah. We are still guilty of it, but we cosily think we have risen above it.

Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then,

[kross]

Judaism and Christianity are two different faiths worshipping different God's, we must not confuse them.

Smalcald, that is factually and historically false.

Judaism is not a pagan religion that worships some made up deity or idol.

Jews worship the YHVH, the God of the Bible. Any other assertion is100% false. Just becaue they do not recognize Jesus as Messiah does not mean they worship another God.

So those who practice Judaism pray to Christ, worship Him and recognize Him as God? If they do they indeed are worshipping the true God, if they do not they are not worshipping the God of the bible nor are they worshipping the same God we are. Unless we want to go down the road of all paths lead to God, etc.

I don't know, I mean it is probably easier to play down the divinity of Christ in an attempt to convert those who practice Judaism, but I don't think it is wise or honest to do so. Any faith which does not recognize the Divinity of Our Lord and Savior is wrong AND is worshipping a different God than Christians worship.

You cannot remove Christ from God and claim to worship the same God as Christians do, you simply can't; and that is 100% factually correct.

Do you believe the old testament? And do you believe the GOD of the old testament is the one true GOD?