The final assualt on the Bible/God...?

[kross]

It is always easier to be a critic of what you are not a part of. It is easier to be outside and not inside working towards change.

As I began reading this thread, i would have been one who would say that it is not necessary to fellowship with the believers in order to be a good Christian. By the time I was half way through the thread, I believe the LORD told me otherwise.

Every Christians is given a spiritual gift or two that is intended to be fitted in to the body to make it whole. No-one is whole without being fitted in with those who have the rest of the gifts. We are all stones fitted together in a congregation to make up a body, the body of CHRIST.

You can not love GOD and love your neaghbor if you are not willing to be amoungst them teaching and guiding them in accordance with the gift you have. The real love of JESUS is to be in HIS body, nourishing it with your gifts and knowledge.

Every person who walks as a Christian can still be decieved. Fellowship for the purpose of learning and sharing what you know keeps those you fellowship with on track and believing the same things.

If all salvation is to you is "isn't GOD enough" than you have missed it. GOD may be enough for salvation, but service in the church HE created and knit together is the reason we are.

If, on the other hand, you are out there saving souls and baptising and discipling new believers and feeding the hungry and housing the homeless and visiting those in jail and the hospitals, if you are doing all of the works of a church as an individual, then you are magnificent and you do not need to be helping a body of believers that is not doing all that you are. But, you may still benefit from thier assisting you and then they would be doing all those things as well.

If you have perfect knowledge and know all things and can walk in a way that shows the truth of JESUS CHRIST, than doing so in a church of flawed Christians may help them to walk as well, and that is the reason for fellowshipping.

It's all about everyone else, not you.

And yes, if your walk in JESUS leads you to turn your back on HIS people and HIS congreagations, against HIS will and HIS teachings, then that would be as close to sin as anything I know of. Looking at salvation form the "what I get from it" point of view is selfish. We are called to look at it from the "what can I give to the fellowship" point of view.

[kross]

What happens to those who don't follow the will of the Lord?

they cannot be used to their fullest by our Lord. Their lives will not be as full and fruitful as they could be. God can and will still use them, he is greater than our weaknesses, but they can never become what they could be if they were to be following the will of the Lord.

Obviously none of us are 100% in the will of the Lord, we are all human and still have a fallen nature to contend with till such time as we leave this earth.

So it is your belief that those who don't attend church are less righteous than those who do?

Even though one walks in obedience to the best of his ability, and obeys the two commandments given by Christ, they will never be as "full and fruitful" as someone who attends church?

You can not walk in obedience to the best of your ability if you reject the commandment to fellowship with a body and to be dedicated to a body.

[Guest man]

You can not walk in obedience to the best of your ability if you reject the commandment to fellowship with a body and to be dedicated to a body.

Then I guess in the end I will be rejected by God and I will burn with the rest of the heathens.

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So now I'll ask you, why is it so important to you that I go to church?

[mizzdy]

Because churches impact lives around the world, when you hook up with a church, you are able to participate both directly and indirectly with ministries that can go places you can't. You get to play a part in reaching lost people that your own scope of experience will never touch on its own.

For what reasons can't I give to churches or charity around the world to do that? Or must you attend a church to give to it?

Yes, but there is nothing like face to face accountability and face to face fellowship. It is good thing they do here on Worthy, but the leadership will tell you that is is not intended to be a replacement for being involved in a local fellowship.

I agree with you about face to face but can't one have that in a home fellowship or one that meets at a library or park for that matter?

It's called "conviction."

Ah conviction, a traditional church is going to be the sole way to conviction or to be convinced of faith or belief? I have a firm belief that the bible is true, I am convicted Christ died and rose for my sins. I am convicted by the Holy Spirit on numerous occasions. I could go on about how I feel convicted by the Word of God.

People will complain about some of the things their kids do that they don't approve of, but that doesn't mean they love their kids less. Many of us do criticize the church, but we do it to make it better. Not just to lt off steam

I am not critizing churches, there are always good and bad in every arena of life. My problem is the idea one cannot have fellowship, conviction, a giving spirit, a charitible heart or any of the other things that you have associated with just the groups that are in church buildings. We all have an impact in ways we don't know every single day whether we attend a large group or small and mostly on a individual level.

It doesn't have to be this way. We do need pray for our brothers and sisters but we also need to be a light to those need it, and you cannot be the light and positive influence you need to be when you keep yourself withdrawn.

Doesn't have to be what way? I try hard to be a light to all I come into contact with and try to give back what God has given to me. I try to be that positive influence every time I walk out my door or through an email or phone call I make or recieve. The problem is when others hear someone say they don't attend a church all kinds of something happens and those like me get accused of not making a difference, being lone rangers, not giving to charity, not, well fill in the blanks. So I suppose I could ask what consitutes a church to you? For me its being with a few people reading and studying, listening to a talk or sermon and discussing it, praying with others. What I don't consider a church is a bunch of people who get together listen to a sermon, sing some song, have a prayer and then go home. I understand some churches are not that way but many are, the pastor may have no idea what your name is or even the elders for that matter. Then you have the problem with a lot of churches who water down their doctrine for the feel good feeling and leave out the important stuff. It is true I am disabled and live somewhat a withdrawn lifestyle but I do not feel my walk with Christ is any different than yours, its individual and personal and the joy I recieve everyday I try and share with others.

[Guest man]

Again, it only stands to reason, if someone doesn't attend church, their life will never be as full and fruitful as the one who does.

no, it does not stand to reason. we are all different, we all have a different potential than anyone else. what stands to reason is that the person that does not attend church will never have a life as full and fruitful as if they went to church.

Isn't that what I just said?

Just out of curiousity, why is it so important to you that I go to church?

It is not important to me that you do anything,

Then perhaps you should just let it go.

[Guest man]

You can not walk in obedience to the best of your ability if you reject the commandment to fellowship with a body and to be dedicated to a body.

Then I guess in the end I will be rejected by God and I will burn with the rest of the heathens.

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So now I'll ask you, why is it so important to you that I go to church?

this is not about going to Hell or not. This is one more strawman from you. It seems that you know there is no defense for not belonging to a local body of believers so you have to keep coming up with these strawmen

If I'm rejecting the commandments of God, wouldn't you say that has some bearing on my salvation?

If you want hear my defence for not going to church, why don't you start another thread?

[Guest man]

I don't understand the hostility and judgement that is cast at those who don't attend those Sunday meetings.

[stacey c]

I don't understand the hostility and judgement that is cast at those who don't attend those Sunday meetings.

Brother, I don't see any hostility and judgement. It's brotherly love and concern. If thats what your feeling may I suggest that you sincerly seek the Holy Spirit, because you maybe feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I know I am as I read through these posts.

You are well loved Man.

[Guest man]

Isn't that what I just said?

not in the least, you were comparing one person vs another, that is not what this is about

Yeah, one who attends vs one who doesn't.

Then perhaps you should just let it go.

I guess since you have ignored the rest of what I wrote I will have to. so this is just a waste of time.

Thank you.

[Guest man]

I don't understand the hostility and judgement that is cast at those who don't attend those Sunday meetings.

Brother, I don't see any hostility and judgement. It's brotherly love and concern. If thats what your feeling may I suggest that you sincerly seek the Holy Spirit, because you maybe feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I know I am as I read through these posts.

Then you need to step outside the box and take a closer look at what is being said.