How Does The Holy Spirit Intercedes?

[poorinspirit]

speaking in tounges ,,, i never have ,,, im saved tho ,,, ive heard others speak in tounges and felt the holy ghost there but i didnt understand them ,,, i seen some ppl in my opinion that just jibber jabber for attention ,,, i never saw it as a damning thing this jibber jabber but more as a weaker faith thing ,,, like tolerating an atheist in church (i once was an atheist and was tolerated lol) i gots ta think on this ,,, i do know paul said we are diff. and gifts are diff. i mean if i can hear the word of the lord and translate it to biker am i speaking in tounges??? or say if i speak in banker terms??? maybe i hear the word and translate it to junkie language,,, thats a gift right???

Tongues with no interpretation can be seen as having a stranger's voice as it is hard to follow Jesus if we are not understanding what is being said. This is what happens when one gives an invitation to the "Spirit" to get the tongues and yet the commandment is Jesus is the Only Way to the Father.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Let no one mislead you into thinking prayer language is the means to Jesus or to the Father.

John 10:7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

This is why Jesus is the only Mediator so as to avoid false prophets and false spirits.

1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

So by His grace, narrow the Way back to the straight gate:

Luke 13: 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

1 Peter 2:24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Hebrews 4:14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This thread is written for the edification in the knowledge of Him in the hopes that God may cause the increase.

Ephesians 4:12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

[poorinspirit]

It always saddens me to see people ignoring the positive things Paul had to say about speaking in tongues while admonishing the Corinthians to use tongues properly.

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

And yet Paul was downplaying tongues to exhort the gift of prophesy over tongues throughout this entire chapter. It wasn't to villify tongues, but its exalted use of it and seeking it.

Paul's statement here clearly shows that the gift of tongues is meant to be used in and for prayer. After all, what is speaking to God but prayer?

If the words of the Spirit are from the Father, and we know that it is so, then what need does God has in talking to Himself? The gift of speaking in tongue back then, edifies the individual, not God, but not in the way you are thinking.

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Paul states point blank that the gift of tongues is meant for self-edification.

But yet Paul declared that his understanding is not fruitful. He admitted it. It is by the known word one is edified thus the reason why he was exhorting prophesy over tongues in the assembly. But yet today we see gibberish as being exhorted, ignoring the whole point of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter.

5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied;

Why do you supposed Paul said that he wished all spoke in tongues?

Why do you keep ignoring what he wished more of?

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

You see, the point of Paul's teaching here was not to tear down the gift of tongues, but to lift up the gift of prophecy.

Paul's admonishment regarding tongues was not to diminish the gift but to correct its usage in the public gathering.

Which is not being done when one sets time aside for prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14: 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

It is not being done when one seeks tongues over prophesy either.

And the most disturbing thing of all is that they are not seeking the gift from Jesus, but from the Spirit as if He is the Mediator. Tell me how that doesn't leave the door wide open for false spirits to come through? Tell me why God would have people seek tongues in the same format of the world?

Isaiah 8:19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Do not mediums seek out ghosts? Wizards unto familiar spirits? Voodoo witch doctors?

That is why this is the commandment so as to avoid false prophets and false spirits.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Tell me why there is no such thing as "another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of the gift of healing"? And why is it that the there is another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues after prophesy has been exhorted over tongues and yet tongues would be the "prize" for seeking this "another baptism"?

Here is another mystery for you. In 1 Corinthians 14h chapter, God was giving the commandment through Paul that women were not to speak in church and that if they were to learn anything, they are to wait until they got home. So tell me why God would bother giving women the gift of tongues if they are not allowed to speak in the assembly. Do note the reason why in verse 36 in how the Word of God first came to man, not woman.

1 Corinthians 14: 34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

So why is it that women are speaking in tongues? There are scriptures of women prophesying in the mission fields, but it is an assumption to say women spoke in tongues: you will not find one verse declaring it, but those verses above has the women in silence.

Unfair? Just consider then, the means by which any women got tongues. By another spirit? By leaving that door wide open for false spirits to impressed upon them that it was the Holy Spirit when they were saved and baptized by the Holy Ghost prior for coming to and believing in Jesus as promised?

Of all the gender that can be corrected of this errant tongues, the Lord is apt to deliver the women over the men by those verses above, but yet pride has a way of settling in to prevent taking the matter to the Lord Jesus in prayer for discernment and wisdom in why the falling away of the faith will occur and be so bad that only a few will find it...

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

So the elect may be fooled into getting tongues that are not Biblical. We are called to test the spirits as well as the tongues if no interpretation. If it was received by seeking after the spirit or by allowing the door to be opened for a theif to break through by taking one's eyes off of Jesus in worship or just by not heeding the commandment by which one could discern these false spirits by and thus being seduced to heed the stranger's voice.... for how can we follow Him if we understand not His voice, thus it is the stranger's voice as it is found in the world.

Tongues with interpretation edifies the church... tongues serves as a sign for those that believe not that will hear it in their native tongue as prophesy will go to the heart of the matter so that the manifestations of such outward signs and miracles brings this report.

1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Tell me how there can be any time set aside for prayer language that would not fare the same result above?

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

That is the report. The result of the Good News.

It is too bad that believers get lost in vainglorying with the tongues that edifies not and hardly fruitful.

Take note of the heartcry of your fellow believers from these e-mails shared at this site.

An email from "A Disillusioned Charismatic - Am I Alone???"

Again, go to Jesus in prayer and ask for discernment. Do not reply until you have gone to the link, read it, and gone to Jesus in prayer first.

God calls the seven churches to examine themselves as He would call believers to do as well. Going about as business as usual when the prophesy about how bad it will be in the Gentile churches that Jesus asked the cryptic question,"Will I find faith in all the earth?" should be enough to wake believers up and seek the Lord for help in these perilous times we live in.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Ephesians 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all........ 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers......7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:......

(As evident at the link)

......I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Only by coming to Jesus... not by chasing after the Spirit as if He is not in us. Jesus is the "go to" God of the Trinity for it is by the Son, we have access to the Father and it is by the Son we have received the promise of the Spirit so we can rest in the son when we came to and believed in Him.

There is no other door offered and the the door of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues is not the Door to Jesus but to another spirit to receive. Those that got tongues that way, had best repent and narrow the Way back to the straight gate to avoid false prophets and false spirits. Amen.

[nebula]

poorinspirit -

In reading your words, it sounds to me like you reject the gift of the Holy Spirit called tongues. Just because you have problems with how a lot of people use their gift (or pretend to have the gift), is that cause to reject the gift?

And yet Paul was downplaying tongues to exhort the gift of prophesy over tongues throughout this entire chapter. It wasn't to villify tongues, but its exalted use of it and seeking it.

Paul wasn't downplaying tongues. In fact, he spoke very highly of the gift (18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;).

Yes, he was correcting a misuse. But no where does he tell them to cease using the gift. Nor for anyone to reject the gift.

As for prophecy . . . do you seek this gift as Paul exhorted?

Paul's statement here clearly shows that the gift of tongues is meant to be used in and for prayer. After all, what is speaking to God but prayer?

If the words of the Spirit are from the Father, and we know that it is so, then what need does God has in talking to Himself? The gift of speaking in tongue back then, edifies the individual, not God, but not in the way you are thinking.

Since when was prayer for God's edification?

Paul said tongues was for speaking to God. What else could that mean?

But yet Paul declared that his understanding is not fruitful. He admitted it.

Where did he say that?

It is by the known word one is edified

So why did Paul say, "He who speaks in tongues edifies himself"? How do you interpret that?

thus the reason why he was exhorting prophesy over tongues in the assembly. But yet today we see gibberish as being exhorted, ignoring the whole point of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter.

You have yet to prove that what is coming out of peoples' mouths is gibberish and not an actual language.

Why do you keep ignoring what he wished more of?

I never ignored it. As I had stated in the beginning, I was drawing attention to the positive things Paul had to say about tongues. And I did mention the attention to prophecy later on.

Again I ask of you - do you seek the gift of prophecy?

Paul's admonishment regarding tongues was not to diminish the gift but to correct its usage in the public gathering.

Which is not being done when one sets time aside for prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14: 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

It is not being done when one seeks tongues over prophesy either.

Tongues was the first gift to be manifested on the disciples. It was the first gift manifested on others elsewhere in the book of Acts as well. It just so happens to be the easiest gift to use.

Prophecy can be difficult because one's own thoughts tend to get in the way. For instance, when one is given a vision and speaks what they see, they might not speak it clearly or may miss describing an element that would have been important to the hearer or might add their own interpretation to what was seen. Or when the prophecy comes in words, it is easy to trip over what words you are given and not speak them properly.

Healing, another gift listed in 1 Cor. 12, doesn't come to readily - at least not here in the Western culture.

These are examples.

But from your arguments it is clear you have had some bad experiences. This, however, is not indicative of all "Charismatic" churches and gatherings. In my church, we do emphasize all of the gifts, and we encourage each other to exercise these gifts...prophecy and the interpretation of tongues included.

[nebula]

And the most disturbing thing of all is that they are not seeking the gift from Jesus, but from the Spirit as if He is the Mediator.

1 Cor. 12:4-11 (KJV)

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Sounds like Paul is saying the Spirit gives these gifts to me. How do you read "by the Spirit"?

Tell me why God would have people seek tongues in the same format of the world?

Isaiah 8:19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Well, considering I reject your claim that the Holy Spirit is not God, that does leave us at an impass.

Tell me why there is no such thing as "another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of the gift of healing"? And why is it that the there is another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues after prophesy has been exhorted over tongues and yet tongues would be the "prize" for seeking this "another baptism"?

I see again you are confusing your fight with whatever church(es) you experienced and how the Spirit manifest Himself (1 Cor. 12:7).

Do you express any manifestations of any of the gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12?

Here is another mystery for you. In 1 Corinthians 14h chapter, God was giving the commandment through Paul that women were not to speak in church and that if they were to learn anything, they are to wait until they got home. So tell me why God would bother giving women the gift of tongues if they are not allowed to speak in the assembly. Do note the reason why in verse 36 in how the Word of God first came to man, not woman.

Again -

1 Cor. 14

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God...

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself...

15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

You keep denying what is written about what tongues is for. Why is that?

Likewise, in Acts 2 and 11, there is no indication that only the men in the assemblies spoke in tongues.

But I realize that I should end this here.

For I am a woman, and by your argument you consider me to be sinning for speaking to you amidst the assembly of believers.

[stacey c]

And the most disturbing thing of all is that they are not seeking the gift from Jesus, but from the Spirit as if He is the Mediator. Tell me how that doesn't leave the door wide open for false spirits to come through? Tell me why God would have people seek tongues in the same format of the world?

poorinspirit

A couple of questions poorinspirit...

1. Do you believe the Holy spirit is fully God?

2. Or do you believe He is less than God and Jesus?

Through out your whole post you seem to down play the importance of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life as though seeking after Him is the same as witchcraft and familiar spirits.

There are quite a few scriptures where Jesus Himself has told us the importance of seeking out the things of the Spirit.

John 14:16 " And I will pray the Father, and he shall send you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

17 "even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot recieve, because it seeth him not; neither knoweth him; but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you."

v. 26 " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father shall send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 15; 26 " But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

John 16:7 " Nevertheless I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the comforter willnot come unto you; But if I depart, I will send him unto you."

v> 13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and shall shew you things to come."

Acts 1:5 " For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

v.8 " But ye shall recieve power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you, and ye shall be witneses both in Jerusalem, and in all of Judea, and in Sameria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth."

Acts 2 :4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Jude v. 20 "But ye, beloved, building up up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost."

No where does it say in the Bible, that seeking the Holy Ghost is wrong or leading us aaway from Jesus, quite contrary the scriptures tell us He shall lead us to Him.

[dcampsart]

I pray I'll be forgiven by everyone for replying in such a lengthy manner to what I believe about baptism in the Holy Spirit or the evidence of speaking in tongues. I wish to present my beliefs in three replies. The first two will be extracts from a website known as Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. The third reply will be my version of a conclusion of the matter and a little more why I believe that speaking in tongues is still valid for the church today.

While I was attempting to put together my thoughts and compiling scripture in defense for what I believe, I came across this website that spoke almost 100% of what I wanted to say. I wouldn't blame anyone for not finishing reading what I post here in reply because it is so long.

Extracted from:

CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY www.carm.org

What is baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Baptism of the Holy Spirit (1) is a term used to describe a movement of the Spirit upon and/or within a believer usually sometime after the person is saved. There is controversy surrounding this phenomenon as to whether it is legitimate or not. Some people believe that once a person is saved the Holy Spirit is in the person and there is no subsequent "baptism in the Holy Spirit." In other words, they maintain that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at salvation. Others believe that it is possible for the Christian to experience an additional movement of the Holy Spirit sometime after salvation. Generally speaking, it is the charismatic movement that supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We need to first know that all Christians receive the Spirit upon their conversion and in this sense all Christians have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This means that they are saved and that they have all they need at that time to be able to live godly and holy lives. 1 Cor. 12:13 says, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."

However, there are many Christians who claim to have had this "secondary" experience of the Spirit. (2) They say that it has brought great blessing and comfort to them. Furthermore, they say that the results of the experience is a renewed dedication and appreciation for God, a stronger desire to read the Bible, a stronger desire to fellowship with Christians, and a deeper sense of worship of God. Millions of Christians who claim to have had this experience forces us to deal with the issue. Is it real or not? Let's look at the Scripture to find out.

The term "baptize with the Holy Spirit (1)" occurs several times in scripture:

[Guest]

So Help Me GOD

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6

Amen!

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zechariah 4:6

[dcampsart]

My second reply. Again, the paragraphs below speak almost 100% of what I believe about speaking in tongues. These paragraphs were also extracted from the website Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.

What is speaking in tongues?

Speaking in tongues is the New Testament phenomena where a person or persons speaks in a language that is unknown to him. This language is either the language of angels or other earthly languages (1 Cor. 13:1). It occurred in Acts 2 at Pentecost and also in the Corinthian church as is described in 1 Corinthians 14. This New Testament gift was given by the Holy Spirit to the Christian church and is for the purpose of the edification of the Body of Christ as well as for glorifying the Lord.

There seems to be three divisions in the use of tongues: First, a private prayer language that is not interpreted; second, a language that is interpreted - this defines proper usage in the Christian congregation; and third, missionary context -- that is, it appears in the context of evangelism where people (in the New Testament) are presenting the gospel.

Today there is much debate as to the validity of speaking in tongues, especially since there is so much apart misuse of it in Christian circles. Nevertheless, some Christian churches teach that all the charismatic gifts (speaking in tongues, word of knowledge, prophecy, etc.) have ceased with the completion of the New Testament (1 Cor. 13:8-12). Others maintain that the charismatic gifts are still for the church today (1 Cor. 1:7). It is not the purpose of this paper to take sides on this issue since it is so divisive and believing or not believing in them does not affect one's salvation. Nevertheless, there are good arguments on both sides and the Christian church needs to be as gracious as possible to those with opposing views on this debatable issue.

But there is an important point worth making here. Some churches erringly maintain that you must speak in tongues in order to be saved. This is a grave mistake since not all people speak in tongues because not all people are gifted by the Holy Spirit this way. 1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills...28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

So, the gifts of the Spirit are varied and they are for the edification of the body of Christ. Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation and it is not a prerequisite proof of Baptism in the Holy Spirit. We must remember the words of Paul in 1 Cor. 13:1-2,13 [/b]"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing....13 But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

[poorinspirit]

In reading your words, it sounds to me like you reject the gift of the Holy Spirit called tongues. Just because you have problems with how a lot of people use their gift (or pretend to have the gift), is that cause to reject the gift?

So if they got this tongue by another way and not by Jesus Christ.... as in seeking another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues by seeking after the Holy Spirit: that does not register any alarm bells at all?

What gift is being monopolized with no profit to the body withal? Tongues without interpretation.

I would rather decrease so that He may increase. How about the gift of discerning of spirits? Anyone practised that in your church or is it also lacking along with interpretation of tongues?

Somebody actually posted that they were edifying God in regards to speaking in tongues. It was another forum. I do not know of anyone here saying it.. yet.

Paul said tongues was for speaking to God. What else could that mean?

This is called not taking the verse in with the whole point of the message. If below verse is true, then how can there be any interpretation? How can anyone understand the tongue?

1 Corinthians 14: 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

But we read on that there is interpretation and tongues are not to be done without it.

3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Then we read how tongues is downplayed if no interpretation.

6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

The admitting the unfruitful part of it is here below.

13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Obviously, the edifying is of a different form. He goes on to emphasize this point.

15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Is it the giving of thanks that is the edification? But yet, Paul walked all over that part of it as exhorting something of significance by having interpretation with those tongues in the assembly.

You should get the linguist to do the job impartially.

Speaking in Tongues: Scientific studies

Not liking the findings at this site.

As others are to be edified by the Word, I have the gift. I just don't brag about it because God has to cause the increase no matter how much seed He has given me to plant or water to water.

Tongues was understood by visiting Jews from other nations as they heard the wonderful works of God in their native language in the Book of Acts.

I do not see prophesy as one predicting future events or getting visions about someone.

The whole point is that Paul was exhortng prophesy over tongues to be sought so that others may be edified. Prophesy is preaching the word needed at the moment for edification. It is not a swami act.

But from your arguments it is clear you have had some bad experiences. This, however, is not indicative of all "Charismatic" churches and gatherings. In my church, we do emphasize all of the gifts, and we encourage each other to exercise these gifts...prophecy and the interpretation of tongues included.

That can only be true if two or three speak in tongues and one interprets and no time set aside for "prayer language".

The biggest protest I have is how they got the tongues, by seeking after the Holy Spirit, and not after Christ. It is no wonder to me why there is no interpretation. They got the wrong tongues in the wrong way.

[dcampsart]

My third, and I'm sure you hope, my final reply.

Originally, I was saved while in the Marine Corps as a young man of 22 years of age. My conversion was phenomenal. I never believed there could be any more for me than what I received initially. I was saved in a Baptist church. I remember how somber our gathering together was and I never seen a need for anything more. After I transferred to a different duty station, a Navy recruiter invited me to his church. It was nondenominational and charasmatic. To be honest, I thought the whole fist time experience there was quite strange. I was VERY skeptical of what I witnessed. People weren't carrying on and bouncing off of walls, running around or rolling on the floor but there were some speaking in tongues and some who were supposedly interpreting. I say supposedly because I had no idea of what was going on. I was somewhat afraid of this strange scene going on. On the long drive home, I dismissed the whole speaking in tongues thing and definitely decided it wasn't for me. I was strangely drawn to the congregation's manner of worship though. The singing, hands raised, eyes closed and the seemingly legitimate love and emotion flowing out of people caused me to want to come back and investigate further but I was determined that the speaking in tongues was NOT for me.

Understand, I am extremely skeptical by nature. I really have to be convinced about most things and it takes me quite some time before I accept something as truth or not. I kept going to this new church but very wary of the speaking in tongues experience. For a long time I had an attitude of distrust and I feared the whole thing. Eventually, I secretly even started judging the people who operated in this arena but a certain conviction started taking hold of me occupying my thoughts continually about how I may be treading on dangerous ground. The scriptures telling of some peoples' reaction to Jesus casting out the demons and his response to them started causing me worry about what I was feeling toward the people in the congregation who spoke in tongues.

Matthew 12:22-30

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and[e] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said,