larryt Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I guess to you all this means that GOSD did not send the evil spirits to do HIS will as it is written in the Bible? To me this means that you choose to interpret one scripture by ignoring the light of another scripture that shines just as bright. No kross, it just means that we know the difference between legitmate interpretation priniciples and the shoddy, unskilled approach you employ. You see no problem attributing sin to God, and that flaw in your understanding of God's sovereignty contaminates the rest of your theology and how you read the Bible. God did not literally send the lying spirit. It is a case of God simply giving Ahab over to his wickedness. Ahab wanted to be led by false prophets and God simply gave Ahab his wish to his own destruction. When you examine the passage in the light of how God is revealed throughout the entire Bible, it is consistent with His methodology. It is no different than God giving the irretrievably wicked over to their own hardness of heart and stubborn impenitence. I gues shoddy and unskilled means that I was not taught by men? And yet the Bible says HE told the spirit to "Go and so do" Those guys who did the interpretation for this Bible really meesed it up. I am grateful that men like you are able to correct it for them. I am not correcting the Bible. I am simply explaining it better detail. As far as being taught by men... The Bible says that wisdom is found in a multitude of counselors. God has anointed teachers and others in the Body of Christ to help us understand the Bible, and I take full advantage of God's gift. He speaks to us through many avenues and teachers are one of them. This crack of yours about not being taught by men is just an excuse to hang on to poor theology. The truth is that your theology is made up in your mind and not based upon the wisdom of Scripture. Actually the OVERWHELMING TEACHING OF THE REFORMATION and 17th & 18th centuries supports the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God in ELECTION of His people. The modern gospel has strayed so far from the reformers that it is no longer the true gospel but in fact another gospel and another Jesus(God), and another spirit. Jesus and Paul both warned that in the last days departure from the truth would be the norm and in the book of revelation the Satan would overcome the saints. The pervasive teaching in the church is and has been drifting toward Pelagianism which emphasizes the FREE WILL of man and denies the total depravity of man. Because someone has not been to the cemetery(seminary) does not mean that he is wrong. In fact I find that those that always appeal to their degree or how much they have studied are the neo-gnostics. If the plain sense makes sense make no other sense. No one skilled in the Bible teaches that God causes sin, as you claim. You are a false teacher. You are always the first to accuse people of being a false teacher and if someone accuses you of the same you cry bloody murder. Kross hasn't said that God causes sin outright. Nor do I believe he believes that but what he and I have tried to bring out is that God is absolutely Sovereign in all that happens in His creation and has make ALL THING ACCORDING TO HIS WILL. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2009 if everything were in God's will there would be no sin for sin is not in His will. there is a huge difference between saying that and that God is sovereign. what you teach decries the very Holiness of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2009 "The Bible shows a God who hates sin" Shiloh Psalm 97 10Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: Proverbs 8 13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate Amos 5 14Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. 15Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph Romans 12 9Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 1, 2009 if everything were in God's will there would be no sin for sin is not in His will. there is a huge difference between saying that and that God is sovereign. what you teach decries the very Holiness of God. Absolutely not!!!!!! God's Holiness is His underlying all encompassing attribute. He is the thrice Holy God. His love which is great is nontheless subject to His Holiness. i.e. He does not dispense His love at the expense of His Holiness. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2009 it is quite clear there is NO sin in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 So, I have provided the verses. You have decided the Bible is wrong. OK, the Bible says that GOD made the wicked for HIS puposes, (prov. 16:4) The Bible also says GOD hardened Pharoah's heart. In fact, it says that GOD preserved him and built him up so that GOD could destroy him. He was what he was by GOD's design and plan. But, of course, this can not be so there will be some way of re-writing this as well. It's amazing. You can read the scriptures and still deny what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 "Therfore HE has mercy on whom HE wills, and whom HE wills HE hardens" (Romans 9:18) What does this mean; "...Whom HE wills HE hardens? It is referring to those who have already hardened themselves. It is God's response to the irretrievably wicked. Pharoah hardenend His own heart and God used Pharoah's own hardness for His glory to show His power through Pharoah. God did not start the plagues until Pharoah hardened Himself against the command of God. God did not directly harden Pharoah. Pharoah continued to respond with hardness with each plague. It is like when you take a block of clay and a block of wax and you put them in the hot sun on a hot pavement. The heat of the son and pavement will melt the wax and harden the clay. The Heat of the sun is the same on both, but evokes a different response due to their differing properties. Some respond to God with hardness, and other respond to God with humble obedience. It is not God directly forcing the response, but the disposition of the person responding. Paul was the chiefest of sinners and yet not to far gone to be saved by the sovereign will of GOD. Yet you say that GOD decides these are beyond saving so HE hardens their hearts to keep that from changing? Why would HE have to harden their hearts if they were already so hardened that they could not be saved? If this is so, GOD decreed that HE would harden their hearts. So HE still corrupted their free will, and in such a way that they could only do evil from then on. This in accordance with HIS wil and purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2009 Passage 1 John 3:5: 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 it is quite clear there is NO sin in God. You are correct. This does not mean that GOD is incapable of creating a being that is HIS exact opposite in order to show the difference. All of creation was made by HIM and for HIM. It all exists for HIS pupose and it is in HIM and of HIM that it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2009 your argument of opposites does not make sense God's glory does not need evil to shine as in clear in Revelation and here as well: 1 John: 5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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