Genesis 6:1-4

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Exrockstar,

i dont think anyone is going to convince someone out of their position but I question one and all.

That's sad because that means we are entrenched. There are certain core Orthodoxies in Christianty that do not change, on that we all agree, and it is why we have creeds like the Nicene Creed. However, I am personally always open to believing that I may have drawn some wrong conclussions. I have heard it said recently that often times in many areas of life that we are 80% zealous and 20% ignorant.

I believe that as believers we should be more Noble like the Bereans and cross check what we hear by the Word of God to see whether or not it is Truth.

Peace,

Dave

[EricH]

Here is my take on the Nephilim and sons of God:

The Nephilim (literally from the Hebrew verb meaning "to fall") were a group of men considered to be giants because of their physical prowess. The Nephilim were on the earth before and after the time that the "sons of God" interbred with the daughters of men in Genesis 6:2.

The sense of Genesis 6 is a description of the general evil of the day. Here is my take on the meaning:

1. The "sons of God" was probably a reference to the Godly line coming from Seth. They did evil in God's sight by interbreeding with women outside the Godly line.

2. The Nephilim were a group of men that due to their physical size were able to "fall" upon others using violence.

3. The irony is that both the evil Nephilim and the "sons of God" were intermarrying and interbreeding with the same women. The offspring of the line of Seth and the daughters of men produced children who were well thought of by the world (6:4), but not by God (6:5)

4. Genesis 6:5 says that God looked upon these events and others and saw that mankind was basically heading headlong onto evil.

It should be noted some feel that the term "Sons of God" refers to demonic beings that interbred with humans. They conclude this because the term "sons of God" is frequently used for angelic beings.

I have concluded that the term refers to the offspring of Seth, because of the following:

1. Genesis 6 follows immediately on the heels of a contrast the ungodly line of Cain (Genesis 4) and the Godly line of Seth (Genesis 5) Genesis then begins with the idea that women were being born outside of the Godly line of Seth, and the offspring of Seth began to desire them.

2. In no place in scripture are angelic beings described has having the ability to reproduce. In fact Jesus indicated that angelic beings are in fact asexual in nature (Mark 12:25)

3. In Genesis 6:9-13 a new "Godly line" is established that begins with Noah. His line is now pure and undefiled.

Summary

1. The Nephilim were a race of physically superior people that used their advantage to "fall" upon people.

2. The Godly line of Seth began intermarrying with women outside the Godly line.

3. The evil Nephilim also began intermarrying with the same women.

4. This dissolution of the Godly line was evil in God's sight (this is a theme that will follow Israel throughout her existence), but produced offspring that were well thought of by the current populace.

5. Because of this, God determined to judge the world by wiping out humanity except for those who belonged to the new Godly line beginning with Noah

[mizzdy]

Run out of time...o by the way, checked out giants and skeletons and could only find hoax pictures and make-believe stories, so Ezekiel and me remain unbelievers so far.

Botz,

I will answer your post soon but thought I would send you this site http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html I have more and if this one doesn't have the pic of the huge skull and body let me know and I will find it for you. There is one pic everyone claims to be of a giant, its in huge coffin looking crate but that is fake for sure.

[exrockstar]

That's sad because that means we are entrenched. There are certain core Orthodoxies in Christianty that do not change, on that we all agree, and it is why we have creeds like the Nicene Creed. However, I am personally always open to believing that I may have drawn some wrong conclussions. I have heard it said recently that often times in many areas of life that we are 80% zealous and 20% ignorant.

I believe that as believers we should be more Noble like the Bereans and cross check what we hear by the Word of God to see whether or not it is Truth.

although i present the words "sons of God "as "beni-ah-Elohim" I have yet to hear

a good reason why it would be the sons of Seth. Actually isnt there an error because Noah was a son

of Seth yet he didn't take in wives which is what the scripture just stated. I also have not read anything

stating that Noah was a "son a Elohim." I think we take for granted that title.

Here is my take on the Nephilim and sons of God:

The Nephilim (literally from the Hebrew verb meaning "to fall") were a group of men considered to be giants because of their physical prowess. The Nephilim were on the earth before and after the time that the "sons of God" interbred with the daughters of men in Genesis 6:2.

1. The "sons of God" was probably a reference to the Godly line coming from Seth. They did evil in God's sight by interbreeding with women outside the Godly line.

the issue i have with this "Seth's godly line" is that we are all technically in the godly line because we are all from Adam.

Now, if you are talking about THE Jewish line then i will say that it started with Abraham. Was everyone prior to Abraham a Jew?

I would say no. The Jewish race was, in a sense, a birth miracle. That line spawned up when there were other blood lines present

so there is a preservation. However, everyone before Abraham had a bloodline from Adam. No matter how many kids, cousins

or grandchildren Adam had...they are a bloodline from Adam. I hope you understand what I am saying.

I'm just throwing out some issues i have with preservation of a Seth's "godly bloodline."

[mizzdy]

Hi Mizzdy...thanks for your kind words, I think you probably know by now that I don't go around calling people names however much I might disagree with what they present (unless they are presenting a different gospel).

With things like these Scriptures I don't dismiss out of hand what you or others are saying, and I will always go back and take a fresh look at things from a different perspective if I think it is important, or just if I am interested in what is being discussed.

I like Chuck Missler as well...he is both informative and entertaining, and pushes the boundaries...I respect that...it makes me really have to go to the Scriptures and check out things for myself, and sometimes get rid of some of my own mis-conceptions or some of the dregs of poor teaching that I have picked up along the way.

I think part of the problem that these spiritual chimeras present is almost akin to the problems facing evolutionists...where are all these strange hybrids now?...just one will do!

I have not seen the bones of any of the giants across the globe, but will search the web after this...and I have never heard of a 4ft skull...I just measured mine which comes to 12"...I am 6'1"..so presumably we are talking of people over 20ft. I believe in the huge giants such as Og and Goliath possibly between 10' to 14' approx, but I think wherever they came from they were eventually wiped out completely, and I doubt we shall ever see their like again...but that depends what triggered their growth in the first place. ( I always wondered why there were no 'good' giants anywhere in the Bible!)

I am prepared to credit angels with enormous power and outstanding intelligence, and one angel could extinguish the human race if he was allowed to do so...but somehow in the story of Job, I see that even Satan is limited to what he can do to an individual man by the word of G-d Himself, so I very much doubt that G-d has given the fallen angels either the capacity or the authority to be able to mess with His divine plan in such a way as has been suggested.

Even now our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

I think that in Job, we are given just a brief glimpse, without any elaboration, on part of the way G-d allows an interaction between Himself and those that are in direct opposition to Him. It is therefore better to work with the revealed priciples and words of truth that G-d has demonstrated through His word, than to struggle to build up a fuller picture with things that will probably remain hidden. It is like trying to build a house with bricks but no mortar.

Right surf's up and I'm off to look for giant skeletons.

In Him Botz

Botz,

I really hope that those size of giants never come back on this earth again either. I really don't believe the ozygen level on earth now could sustain them though. I do hear that Denmark and those countries people are starting to be above average height some accredit it to being able to eat better food. From what I understand there are many labs across the world working on these chimeras and have been for a few decades at least. The big stink in the last years about Britan genetic engineering programs caused many to accuse the scientist as playing God. There are labs in South America who have been doing the same things and to their credit I suppose they have learned to use ones own stem cells in people who are paralyzed. Honestly do you think that if they have gotten viable dna from some of those skeletons and created something from it they would announce it to the public?

How many generations were there between the flood and Og and Goliath? The bible does say that they were after the flood also yet I think that they were not able to do as they did before the flood, even though they have the intellect there resources they used must have been wiped out in the flood. I would never under estimate what God's created beings can do. I feel that these sons of God, angels, all have free will just as we do and I believe God left many (the fallen ones?) to finish the creation so to speak, to look after, put the finishing touches on Gods creation. In Job wasn't it God who initiated the conversation with satan? And didn't God give him permission to do as he willed to Job except for killing Job himself, in many ways it seems as God gave satan free will to do as he wished but yes with the quideline of not killing Job. God knows before hand all that would happen and if he knew that satan would fall He certainly would know what those other sons of God had in mind but then again didn't He have a plan for all of the nastiness of sin before the creation of the earth? True God is in charge and all come under that authority but we nor the angels are robots and have free will but then that discussion leads into other areas.

[LIVN4JC]

Blessings to all my brothers and sisters. I have decided to take the step of actually reading the bible from front to back and really study it this year. I have broke it down to 4 chapters a day. So far so good. I am using a commentary online by Matthew Henry. I am using Gateway to help me read and study. So far I have been able to understand what I have been studying. Then today I came across this scripture (see below please) and I have no idea what the meaning is in it. Also what Nephilim truly are. (are they giants truly or not) And who are the sons of God? And the mighty men, who are they? Please help. I really am trying to learn and grow. I have looked in other commentaries and none could explain or help. Hoping for some enlightenment. Thank you for your patience and time.

May the Lord ever be with you all.

In His Loving Hands,

Sister in Christ

Anne (MeMa)

Genesis 6:1-4 (English Standard Version)

Genesis 6

Increasing Corruption on Earth

1When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,

2the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

3Then the LORD said,(A) "My Spirit shall not abide in[a] man forever,(B) for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years."

4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

if you plan on finishing in one year, your reading the Word will be about 15 + minutes a day ( 5 min a day in the N.T. will get you through it in one year, and 10 min a day in the O.T. will get you through the old in one year....) it takes about 80 hours of constant reading to complete the entire Bible..... some people would take longer, some shorter... keep going, seems like a lot of reading, but can be done.... dont worry about not making it, just stay in it....

mike

Thank you for the advice. I am spending about 1 and a half hrs reading. I am using commentaries and journaling. So that takes a bit more time. Blessings

Sister in Christ

LIVN4JC

[mizzdy]

Had a look at the site you posted Mizzdy...interesting, and debunks Sitchin's spacemen theory, but I see still latches on to the idea of cross angelic-human fertilization, but does so from a historical etomological perspective.

As Believers in the L-rd, we have to be open to all sorts of possibilities that most people won't even contemplate, but because we know in who we have believed, we are persuaded otherwise....for example stopping the sun, or calming the wind and the sea...we know these things are true, even if they excede the bounds of our knowledge...and even if according to our calculations they are an impossibility....G-d is not restricted by our understanding, or even by the laws He has put in motion that hold our universe together.

I would be very open to believing in these fallen angelic beings corrupting human flesh so that G-d has to destroy the world and start again, meanwhile putting these hybrids in a spiritual prison because they cannot die....but I am not convinced by either argument or Scripture, and Noah was building his Ark for all those years as a prophetic witness aginst the evil generation...and he was a preacher of righteousness, not to evil spirits, but to fallen humanity that had descended into unbelievable depravity.

When you look at biblical accounts of spiritual beings interacting with the human race, there are very definate lines drawn that cannot be crossed...this might even include the hidden knowledge that fallen spirits are said to have passed on to mankind, in an attempt to direct their attention away from Him...a case in point being Nimrod, but on this I am probably willing to concede that there is a likelihood of this happening, especially as the quest for 'hidden knowledge' or the 'occult' has been part of mans sin and downfall from time immemorial...including writings, rituals and elaborate life-styles.

Run out of time...o by the way, checked out giants and skeletons and could only find hoax pictures and make-believe stories, so Ezekiel and me remain unbelievers so far.

Botz,

Perhaps that wasn't the best site to post but it was the first one I hit on that I have saved, I have more! I have read Stitchins books and boy they are hard to wrap your brain around with all the stuff packed into them, I don't believe for a minute that spacemen came to this earth and all that nonsense, Stitchin believes that those annunaki are the ones who seeded the earth not angels. Although there is a lot of other good info in his books.

Why if there was a godly line of seth that line wasn't perserved in the ark also? If there was such a thing as a godly line why was Enoch raised to prophecize about the wickedness/ungodliness. I did a search about the phrase on Gen. 4:26 ...when men began to call on the name of the Lord. and its a mixed bag concerning what it actually means. I found in the Targum of Jonathan it says "That was the generation in whose days they began to err and to make themselves idols, and surnamed their idols by the name of the Word of the Lord. Targum of Onkelos says "...then in his days the sons of men desisted from praying in the name of the Lord." Jerome it seems agrees with them and other earlier jews and rabbis that idolatry started in those days also so where is that godly line of seth I keep hearing about? My margin notes in the NKJV says that they began to call themselves by the name of the Lord, that could mean they profaned the name by attaching it to themselves. And in many places I looked I understand it is a mistranslation and when it says 'began to call' is chalal means to wound, to profane. I have never had anyone been able to explain them to me in a way that makes any sense. And also sonship is a distinctly NT revelation, the term son of never applied to mankind in the OT, so those sons of God cannot be men although I think at least one person was called son of man. The term for habitation which is referenced in Jude 6 and 7 refers to heavenly bodies from which they disrobed. The only other use for these words 'oivkhth, rion is in 2 Cor. 5:2 alluding to the heavenly body which all believers pray for and will be rewarded with at the end of this age. And then I read in Gen. 6:12 that says 'all flesh had corrupted his way upon earth', again where is the godly line of seth and why were they not taken into the ark with noah? So you see I have as hard of a time with this godly line of seth as you do with the fallen angels. Yet it does seem there are many more scriptures that point to these sons of God than there is about any line of seth.

God Bless,

Mizzdy

[LIVN4JC]

Blessings to and thank you for your posts. I have a lot of scriptures from these posts and other info. It has helped me greatly. I am leaning towards believing in the fallen angel theory. Not 100% but leaning there. There is to many scriptures talking about them. What I don't understand and keeps me from 100% believing is the scriptures where it is said there isn't any gender in the angels. So then how can they procreate? Still checking things out. Thank you for helping me out with this all of my brothers and sisters. I am really devoted to studying the bible and want to stay faithful to it. May the Lord bless all of you and may your wisdom continue to grow, for it helps those of us who are still learning.

In His Loving Hands,

Sister in Christ,

LIVN4JC

[mizzdy]

Run out of time...o by the way, checked out giants and skeletons and could only find hoax pictures and make-believe stories, so Ezekiel and me remain unbelievers so far.

Botz,

I will answer your post soon but thought I would send you this site http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html I have more and if this one doesn't have the pic of the huge skull and body let me know and I will find it for you. There is one pic everyone claims to be of a giant, its in huge coffin looking crate but that is fake for sure.

You do not really believe that stuff do you mizzdy. You should stick to scripture, there is nothing in scripture prophesying are demise via giants.

I really don't know what you mean by do I believe all that? First yes I do believe there were fallen angels that somehow had children with the daughters of men. No I do not believe Stitchen and his annunaki story that space aliens seeded the earth with the existing human prototype. I do stick to scripture and yes I also go and read the early writings of the rabbis and Jews and also read Enoch and others as references, I figure if those books were quoted in the scriptures so why not make use of them. Also the targums were used as reference material for checking the correct translations of the OT. I myself have seen one of those giant skeletons when I was a child on vacation in Indiana/kentucy area, so I do know they were real. Matter of fact there was a museum in northern Nevada that had I believe two of those skeletons until some men in uniform can and took them away. How can anyone fake anything these days when so many have access to the origional source and these bones have been proved to be real. I ask you where did they come from, where in any history can we find accounts of them? I would say the bible is a great history book also. And frankly where in the world did I say anything about giants being the demise of the human race? That might be something Stitchen talks about when he refers to the annunaki coming back but nothing I said.

[mizzdy]

According to scriptures angels cannot reproduce, not only can they not reproduce with humans as you claim they have, they do not reproduce with one another. It is biblically impossible that fallen angels procreated with women.

The scriptures state that in heaven neither are given in marriage doesn't say anything about sexual unions.

QUOTE (mizzdy @ Jan 6 2009, 11:48 post=)

And frankly where in the world did I say anything about giants being the demise of the human race? That might be something Stitchen talks about when he refers to the annunaki coming back but nothing I said.

This is a quote from the site you provided.

No these are my words asking you where I said giants will be the demise of humans. The site I provided was a refute by a man named Michael Heiser to Zecharia Stitchens work on the space aliens called the annunaki, Stitchen says the nephilim were these annunaki, Heiser says they are not space aliens but the giants produced by the sons of God, I suggest you read it in that context. I can provide other works in regards to the initial response of who the nephilim were.

and my question to you is do you really believe this stuff, and if not why provide the site?

If you had taken the time to read my response to you the first time around you would have seen I do not believe in space aliens but I do believe in the fallen angels and that they produced giants. Tell me if these giants were just produced by humans then why don't we see them today? After all genes don't change all that much and do come back throughout generations. Why aren't there any the size of goliath or Og? Certainly we have very large peoples some of these extra large people have disorders that eventually kill them. But where are these men of renown, giants of old, today? I am not here argueing with you nor do I want an out right debate you seem fond of, I put forth what I believed and never once asked you or anyone else to believe me. Read the web site if you wish go and google Michael Heiser and his work on the divine council, google sons of God, nephilim if you wish before you come back and attribute what I say to mere speculation, and read both sides of the story, take the info to God in prayer, thats all I ask. Believe me this was not a topic I have picked for myself it just seems to come back to me time and time again so I just figured I was supposed to study on it.