Genesis 6:1-4

[mizzdy]

When you think of the potential power an angelic being has...why when fused with human dna would this just produce giants...why not beings that can fly, or become invisible or....hmmm Superman and X-men... seriously I can't really understand it, or does 'power and reknown' refer to more than we think?

Botz,

Reading that it reminded me of Gene Wilders Frankenstien! Mixing up whole slews of dna in a dish and viola you have have dragons/cow/ rabbits that fly wow the list is endless! Seriously though if indeed the angels did do this and I do believe they did, and they did some how create bodies for themselves then they would have had to use human dna to do so.

Where did the giants come from or where did the genetics come from? As you pointed out there was no 'good' giants reported anywhere in the bible thats very curious in itself.

I can see that similar to quite a few biblical passages there are two major camps on this issue, as we have said before, it is not on the surface, some major doctrinal issue, and in no way affects a person's walk with G-d....but I wonder what the implications are in the long run...

I agree this topic doesn't affect ones walk with God or is it a salvation issue. For me when I finally accepted what I was reading well the whole of the OT seemed to make so much more sense. So many have a hard time with all the bloodshed and the whys of killing all of the men, woman and children and the standard answers about God told them to leaves many flat. Or that it was given to the them by God as the answer makes one think God didn't care about anyone other than those Israelites. It doesn't really say why God sent them to kill them but because of who they were does it? When I understood that it was to wipe out the genetics of those living there and not just because they were idol worshippers, the light bulb lit over my head and that ahha moment hit me. Why in your thinking did God have the Israelites wipe out all those people even the children?

1. Where does it clearly show one such incident occuring?

2. Where does it clearly intimate that such a thing is possible?

3. If it is possible, then why isn't it still happening now?

Where else in the bible is there any other explanation for the giants?

Where besides the verse that there is no marrying in heaven say that such things are impossible?

Good question but as I always ask why if it is just a human trait why isn't it happening now?

The separtation of languages and into nations at the tower may have been the turning point that God may have put a halt to it. It does seem that the tower incident changed a lot not just in terms of the hebrews but also within the writings of the sumerians and urgartic texts, more Gods were added in various regions, more traditions also, at least from what I can remember of reading the writings. Since I also think that the nations were divided amoung the ones from the God's council and given each their own rule cooperation would have come to a stop and perhaps that is why there were no more but pockets of giants in various areas such as found by the Israelites and the ones spoken of in the bible.

Blessings,

Mizzdy

[givennewname]

The sons of God were the descendants of Seth, The Nephilim could have been large in stature but a more appropriate interpretation are tyrants, the were simple evil men (bullies). The men of renown were men of authority and good character.

Some will say that the sons of God are falling angels, and they mated with women and the Nephilim are the mix breed demonic humans, THIS IS UNTRUE. Do not by what they are pushing.

Not all of the decendants of Seth were good. To give an example, the desendants of Seth would include thefather of Abraham Terah who were idol worshipers...

[Botz]

Where did the giants come from or where did the genetics come from? As you pointed out there were no 'good' giants reported anywhere in the bible thats very curious in itself.

Hi Mizzdy.

I think we can find traces of this phenomenon and impotent vestiges of the overall effect lying dormant in human genes...and from time to time across the world some exceptionally large people appear up to about 8'6". but this is usually if not always down to a gene defect called 'giantism, or 'acromegaly'.

Purely speculation on my part, but in those early days before and just after the flood, when life spans were particularly long, there might have been the opportunity amongst the giants to keep breeding with each other in the hope of producing more and more like them...producing both huge men and men of reknown. I compare it today with the breeding goal amongst the Arabs in Europe and Israel, whose aim is to produce so many children per family, they will in several generations outstrip the original inhabitants and seize control for Allah...it is a wicked aim, and of devilish origin. In the early days when the first giants appeared amongst those that were in rebellion against G-d...they might have kept together and tried to build up a vast force of these beings to intimidate and gain control of the land. I think it is pretty significant that they particularly established themselves in Israel.

Goliath and his brethren were Philistines and originated from over towards Greece..many of them had an extra digit, and I believe there are some Arab families in the Gaza area that still bear these features. If something triggered the production of a huge Palestinian human being, they might try and breed people of that size....but things have changed since the old days, and whereas a giant with a spear and a sword posed an intimidating threat and a rallying point, nowadays it would be far more useful to have super-intelligent people who could control and direct events...a giant would just be a curiousity.

So many have a hard time with all the bloodshed and the whys of killing all of the men, woman and children and the standard answers about God told them to leaves many flat. Or that it was given to the them by God as the answer makes one think God didn't care about anyone other than those Israelites. It doesn't really say why God sent them to kill them but because of who they were does it? When I understood that it was to wipe out the genetics of those living there and not just because they were idol worshippers, the light bulb lit over my head and that ahha moment hit me. Why in your thinking did God have the Israelites wipe out all those people even the children?

I don't think there is anything too hard about it...these nations had the opportunity to turn from their ways, but they didn't and G-d used Israel as a weapon of judgment in His hand...they were all to be killed so that there was no remnant to harass His people, because they were a totally wicked race, just like those killed in the flood...or those destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah. G-d also used/allowed the surrounding nations to bring His judgments against Israel when necessary.

G-d has aptly demonstrated since the beginning that He would not hesitate to bring judgment on people...but when Israel was formed, rather than act sovereignly, He would employ them as a test of their obedience, and so they might truly be a part of His overall plan...in the New Covenant they might be called 'co-worker's'!

QUOTE...botz

1. Where does it clearly show one such incident occuring? (interbreeding angels with humans)

2. Where does it clearly intimate that such a thing is possible?

3. If it is possible, then why isn't it still happening now?

Where else in the bible is there any other explanation for the giants?

Where besides the verse that there is no marrying in heaven say that such things are impossible?

Good question but as I always ask why if it is just a human trait why isn't it happening now?

1. I think even today people are aware of anomalys that can suddenly occur in humans...possibly in those days there was a large and fierce strain of people that evolved naturally, but were eventually wiped off the face of the earth...apart from their great strength the Scriptures are silent about any supernatural origins of unnatural capabilities.

2. I already showed the verses in Corinthians that talk of the distinction between men, animal, and angels...these cannot be easily ignored, as they intimate a gulf as wide as that which separates Lazarus from the rich man...they cannot be crossed.

Demonic or possession by fallen angels/spirits is totally Biblical and evident...the court magicians in Pharoahs time had the ability through the dark arts to manifest certain extraordinary things...and those given over to Satan in the last days are going to produce deceiving wonders, whose like we have probably never encountered before...but no where that I can see is it going to be through physical hybrids, but rather men and women giving themselves over to spiritual darkness.

3. It does occur now...but to a lesser degree. It is possible it could happen again...even in the laboratory with some clever gene manipulation...but any race that tries to produce super-humans in an effort to swing the balance of world domination is unlikely to want to produce giants now...they would be no sense or purpose to it....much more likely to try for super-intelligence...ostensibly to help sort out the worlds ecomonic problems etc.

The separtation of languages and into nations at the tower may have been the turning point that God may have put a halt to it. It does seem that the tower incident changed a lot not just in terms of the hebrews but also within the writings of the sumerians and urgartic texts, more Gods were added in various regions, more traditions also, at least from what I can remember of reading the writings. Since I also think that the nations were divided amoung the ones from the God's council and given each their own rule cooperation would have come to a stop and perhaps that is why there were no more but pockets of giants in various areas such as found by the Israelites and the ones spoken of in the bible.

I can agree with this...it could also be that G-d arranged it in such a way, that the remnants of these giants were confronted by the Israelites and wiped out along with their gene pool....and maybe the shorter life-span went hand in hand with the lack of giants.

In Him Botz.

[Botz]

The sons of God were the descendants of Seth, The Nephilim could have been large in stature but a more appropriate interpretation are tyrants, the were simple evil men (bullies). The men of renown were men of authority and good character.

Some will say that the sons of God are falling angels, and they mated with women and the Nephilim are the mix breed demonic humans, THIS IS UNTRUE. Do not by what they are pushing.

Not all of the decendants of Seth were good. To give an example, the desendants of Seth would include thefather of Abraham Terah who were idol worshipers...

Good point.

[Guest HIS girl]

This may have already been mentioned but angels and humans cannot have sex - as angels are not sexual beings and have no need for reproducing.

I have always believed the Nephilim were "Godly men" from the line of Seth...

[Guest HIS girl]

In my defense, not once have I ever thought that ALL of Seths descendants were good, upstanding men. It is just an old saying about Seth I guess - not in any way removing decency from Adams other direct offspring.

And yes you are right as well - "giant" could very well mean a hero or man/men of "standing"..

[Botz]

archaeologist2

i find it very painful to read discussions by people who cannot turn to more qualified men of God and their works to talk about a passage of scripture. if you are going to talk about scripture, get out of the pop christianity books and get into real acadmic material written by men of God and not pretenders.

Hi Arch2...Can we ease your pain somewhat by following up on some of your recommendations?

I don't think there was a 'hang-up' about the word giant and I am sure people will concede that it might not refer to great stature every time...the main line of contention was the inter-breeding of fallen angels with human beings, and from my own albeit brief research, the 'more qualified men of G-d' are divided upon their scholarly opinion, and therefore us mere mortals are at the mercy of some of the 'pop christianity books'. Mind you even if they are rather far-fetched they do have a certain instant appeal and soar above some of the laborious stuffy academia.

Ps...Hi His girl...yep those things have been mentioned, gotta dig deeper.

[Guest HIS girl]

'Botz' Ps...Hi His girl...yep those things have been mentioned, gotta dig deeper.

Hi Botz

In other words - read previous posts...!!!

Will do.. LOL

[Botz]

Hi Arch...you do seem to be fairly opinionated as to how people arrive at their conclusions on this subject, and how they should actually participate...I know for a fact that some people who are writing on this particular topic, have read plenty of articles on the subject, including some 'out of the box theories' which I actually find challenging and stimulating, even if I disagree with most, because they get me searching through the Scriptures, and comparing other peoples notes....

I notice you only half quoted me on the 'pain' reference...what I was saying to you was why not provide some guidence to works that in 'your opinion' throw good solid biblical light on the issue?...no stuffy ones mind you.

You covered the point about the angels not marrying etc, which we had covered, and although I agree this is one Scripture that certainly indicates the unlikelihood of any sort of union either between humans or angels or both together...some have pointed out that it is not unequivocal, and still leaves other possibilities...Presumably angels don't have sexual organs as they don't need to reproduce...and when we are ressurected we might find we are a bit....well...different!

In that passge in Matthew 22:30 that you referred to, in the verse before it, Jesus makes a very interesting and intriguing statement...."You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of G-d..."...food for thought.

In agape love. Botz

[exrockstar]

use discernment. if they disagree then they have to show credible, scriptural proof that angels mated with humans and there is NO instance in scriptures which supports such a claim. No teaching from Jesus or the apsotles thatthey mated withhumans thus you can be fairly sure that it did not happen.

so since you are dismissing both claim from the two "suggested" interpretations about the "sons of God " reference then what is your answer?

dont just criticize but contribute