I have a question.

[Guest HIS girl]

Smalcald and the three other men,

I will witness to anyone who is willing to hear that Salvation is for ALL men.

Simple as that.

[Smalcald]

We have scripture that tells us that Christ died for all human beings.

[Guest HIS girl]

We have scripture that tells us that Christ died for all human beings.

Agreed.

[larryt]

='larryt'

date='Jan 17 2009, 08:28 PM' post='1313873']

John 6 v 40;

"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." Jesus.

v47: "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life." Jesus.

So Hg what is your point.

LT

The Scriptures speak for themselves larry.

I know what the scriptures say. I am not a mind reader. If you want to make a point why not explain yourself? I fail to see what point you are trying to make.

LT

[larryt]

To the three men who disagree with me -

If I am NOT one of the 'chosen" - then WHO is it I'm having a loving, Godly relationship with?

Who's deceiving me?

If I'm NOT one of the "chosen" - is God ENJOYING the deceit I'm living in? Is this what he "planned" for me?

I AM having a relationship with Jesus/God from the Bible because He first loved me and offered His love to me while I was sinner - He wanted to reconcile me to what He had planned from the outset - pre-Fall - a loving relationship with He and I. This love is offered and is available to all - and this is what I HAVE.

Hi H-g,

Who is indicating that you don't have a relationship with Christ????

If you have a relationship with Christ you are one of the elect. If you don't you are not. It is as simple as that.

LT

[Guest HIS girl]

'larryt'

To the three men who disagree with me -

If I am NOT one of the 'chosen" - then WHO is it I'm having a loving, Godly relationship with?

Who's deceiving me?

If I'm NOT one of the "chosen" - is God ENJOYING the deceit I'm living in? Is this what he "planned" for me?

I AM having a relationship with Jesus/God from the Bible because He first loved me and offered His love to me while I was sinner - He wanted to reconcile me to what He had planned from the outset - pre-Fall - a loving relationship with He and I. This love is offered and is available to all - and this is what I HAVE.

Hi H-g,

Who is indicating that you don't have a relationship with Christ????

If you have a relationship with Christ you are one of the elect. If you don't you are not. It is as simple as that.

LT

It was a hypothetical question IF I didn't have a relationship with Christ.

With your theory of the "chosen", there really is no assurance of Salvation - because if you read back to the hypothetical questions - you will see why.

With the Salvation that comes through Jesus Christ - there IS assurance. I believe God's Word over mans any old time.

[larryt]

'larryt'

To the three men who disagree with me -

If I am NOT one of the 'chosen" - then WHO is it I'm having a loving, Godly relationship with?

Who's deceiving me?

If I'm NOT one of the "chosen" - is God ENJOYING the deceit I'm living in? Is this what he "planned" for me?

I AM having a relationship with Jesus/God from the Bible because He first loved me and offered His love to me while I was sinner - He wanted to reconcile me to what He had planned from the outset - pre-Fall - a loving relationship with He and I. This love is offered and is available to all - and this is what I HAVE.

Hi H-g,

Who is indicating that you don't have a relationship with Christ????

If you have a relationship with Christ you are one of the elect. If you don't you are not. It is as simple as that.

LT

It was a hypothetical question IF I didn't have a relationship with Christ.

With your theory of the "chosen", there really is no assurance of Salvation - because if you read back to the hypothetical questions - you will see why.

With the Salvation that comes through Jesus Christ - there IS assurance. I believe God's Word over mans any old time.

On the contrary, the fact that Jesus chose His bride and made sure they would would in fact be saved, that He would not loose any of those that the Father gave Him is great assurance for those that have that relationship. I believe God's word over man's any old time.

And it is not my theory. Have you heard of Bunyan, Spurgeon, Whitfield, Pink, John Newton(Amazing Grace), John Knox, John Gill, Matthew Henry, John MacArthor, Chuch Swindoll, not to mention many others. And Calvin too. I am not a hypercalvinist as I do recognize man's responsibility in all this.

Where it is left up to the "free will" of man there is not assurance. Unless God does everything we can be lost.

Arguing abut hypothetical situations is absurd. And your throwing them out to be answered does not good and I think would fall into the category of foolish questions.

I am not just arguing for arguments sake. And I am not trying to trip you up. I am asking questions that if you can give me a reasonable answer I would gladly adjust my own thinking. As the following.

If God is LOVE and I was in God's thoughts before creation to be birthed within His earthly creation - does it make sense then that God would deliberately create ME in order to send me to Hell?

Would that be regarded as LOVE?

Just a thought.

If God loves everyone then you would be right.

If God does not love everyone then it is completely consistent with that God.

How do you reconcile the passage in Rev.14:9-11

Re 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Do you really think God loves those that He torments with fire and brimstone in His presence? Or does God really HATE the workers of iniquity.(Ps 5:5)

LT

LT

[Guest HIS girl]

'larryt'

To the three men who disagree with me -

If I am NOT one of the 'chosen" - then WHO is it I'm having a loving, Godly relationship with?

Who's deceiving me?

If I'm NOT one of the "chosen" - is God ENJOYING the deceit I'm living in? Is this what he "planned" for me?

I AM having a relationship with Jesus/God from the Bible because He first loved me and offered His love to me while I was sinner - He wanted to reconcile me to what He had planned from the outset - pre-Fall - a loving relationship with He and I. This love is offered and is available to all - and this is what I HAVE.

Hi H-g,

Who is indicating that you don't have a relationship with Christ????

If you have a relationship with Christ you are one of the elect. If you don't you are not. It is as simple as that.

LT

It was a hypothetical question IF I didn't have a relationship with Christ.

With your theory of the "chosen", there really is no assurance of Salvation - because if you read back to the hypothetical questions - you will see why.

With the Salvation that comes through Jesus Christ - there IS assurance. I believe God's Word over mans any old time.

On the contrary, the fact that Jesus chose His bride and made sure they would would in fact be saved, that He would not loose any of those that the Father gave Him is great assurance for those that have that relationship. I believe God's word over man's any old time.

And it is not my theory. Have you heard of Bunyan, Spurgeon, Whitfield, Pink, John Newton(Amazing Grace), John Knox, John Gill, Matthew Henry, John MacArthor, Chuch Swindoll, not to mention many others. And Calvin too. I am not a hypercalvinist as I do recognize man's responsibility in all this.

Where it is left up to the "free will" of man there is not assurance. Unless God does everything we can be lost.

Arguing abut hypothetical situations is absurd. And your throwing them out to be answered does not good and I think would fall into the category of foolish questions.

I am not just arguing for arguments sake. And I am not trying to trip you up. I am asking questions that if you can give me a reasonable answer I would gladly adjust my own thinking. As the following.

If God is LOVE and I was in God's thoughts before creation to be birthed within His earthly creation - does it make sense then that God would deliberately create ME in order to send me to Hell?

Would that be regarded as LOVE?

Just a thought.

If God loves everyone then you would be right.

If God does not love everyone then it is completely consistent with that God.

How do you reconcile the passage in Rev.14:9-11

Re 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Do you really think God loves those that He torments with fire and brimstone in His presence? Or does God really HATE the workers of iniquity.(Ps 5:5)

LT

LT

Yes I have heard of them thankyou.

And no my hypothetical questions aren't foolish and these are questions that people would ask if told there are those pre-chosen for Hell.

God does not need to make men destined for Hell simply to show His Glory - God does not need ANYTHING to show His Glory - just the existence of God is enough.

Of course God rejects those that continue in rebellion of His Word - sin. That is a non brainer - my argument IS - there is hope and reconciliation offered to ALL men. We start off on an even playing field.

What is so hard to understand larry?

I put forth Scripture showing you what Jesus said and you still require further explaination from me? Why - when it is evident what Jesus is saying.

Lastly larry- if I tell others that there is the hope of Salvation for ALL men, will I be lying to them?

1 John 1 v 9: If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Am I to tell people that this verse apples only to a "chosen" few?

[Guest shiloh357]

If God loves everyone then you would be right.

If God does not love everyone then it is completely consistent with that God.

How do you reconcile the passage in Rev.14:9-11

Re 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Do you really think God loves those that He torments with fire and brimstone in His presence? Or does God really HATE the workers of iniquity.(Ps 5:5)

Well Larry, the problem with that rationale of yours is that when it comes to God's nature, His love and hate are not mutually exclusive, and they do not cancel each other out. Your fleshly rationale assumes that hate and love exist in God the same as they do in human nature.

In human nature, we are incapable of hating and loving simultaneously. Hate as is expressed by humans is carnal and is equated by Christ with committing murder.

However, God's expression of hate is perfect as is His expression of love and He is capable of both loving and hating at the same time. So for God to say He hates the workers of iniquity, it is not a denial of His love for them as well.

This again, is just another way you basically defame and assault God's character. Neither you or kross have a compentent grip on true, solid Christian theology. The junk you post is basically in complete opposition to the true New Testament faith.

[Guest shiloh357]

If God was going to