Boundaries

[stacey c]

This is a two point question.

I know first hand that no one is perfect and we all must deny our flesh and allow God to live daily within each of us. And sometimes this is a harder struggle than at others.

What about ministers that seem to have very little to no fruits of the Spirit operating in their lives at all?

Does it seem okay to teach good Bible lessons but not teach by example?

To clarify my question, I know someone who is a minister and teaches home Bible studies, and he really knows how to teach well and usually get his point across, at other times you see and hear his lack of love and gossip get the best of him.

I know some of the people who really don't recieve from him,(their family), because they also know him on a personal level and how he is.

2nd question, is it within my boundaries to speak with this minister? He is a family member and I am the closet relative to him associated with his Bible studies.

[Guest Yacov]

Yes, it is biblical to reprove a brother or sister. However, what does the Holy Spirit tell you to do? And are you sure the Holy Spirit is telling you to do that or should I state, how are you sure that the Holy Spirit is telling you to do this?

I go by one rule even as it is biblical to do as such. If the Holy Spirit does not place it upon your heart to do this then do not. I am very careful in doing this.

If you are called to do this, then have your scriptures ready. Be gentle. There are exceptions to this rule though depending upon what the Holy Spirit tells you to do.

Remember Hebrews 10:26 - 31. The tone in this scripture is very harsh.

So if this is about the law, you are allowed to be harsh. Better to be harsh to a brother than to have the Living G-d be harsh to him. Some people think that to handle Anti-Semitic statements, one should be gentle, kind, cuddly and to use appeasement. However, there are 6 Million Jewish reasons and there are also 1.75 Million Messianic Jewish reasons not to be gentle when dealing with Anti-Semitism. Both ways must be done with love - gentle or tough love.

Shalom,

Yacov

[riel]

stacy,

Whether people can be perfect or not has to do with the choices they make. We know that even though we're born again believers we still have to make the choice each day of whether to serve our heavenly Father or serve our flesh. Obviously, the minister you mentioned has made some wrong choices. However, our Father uses people, no matter what type of believers they are, to minister to others. He knows He's not always dealing with mature and polished believers, but He uses his word and spirit to accomplish His purposes.

I don't thing there's anything wrong with you telling us about him. We can pray for him and, hopefully, give you some good advice. I would pray, though, whether to attend his Bible studies or not.

Hugs,

Darlene

[arrowfromgod]

This is a two point question.

I know first hand that no one is perfect and we all must deny our flesh and allow God to live daily within each of us. And sometimes this is a harder struggle than at others.

What about ministers that seem to have very little to no fruits of the Spirit operating in their lives at all?

Does it seem okay to teach good Bible lessons but not teach by example?

To clarify my question, I know someone who is a minister and teaches home Bible studies, and he really knows how to teach well and usually get his point across, at other times you see and hear his lack of love and gossip get the best of him.

I know some of the people who really don't recieve from him,(their family), because they also know him on a personal level and how he is.

2nd question, is it within my boundaries to speak with this minister? He is a family member and I am the closet relative to him associated with his Bible studies.

mabe its me ,,, but i just couldnt stand by and hear a minister that was gossiping and carring on ,,, i mean shooting the breeze is one thing ,,, but gossiping about others is a whole different game

and as far as teaching by example goes ,,, thats the only way to teach ,,, ask jesus

how would it sound if jesus said to pick up your cross and follow me ,,, then jesus jumps in a limo and splits ,,, (i mean no dis respect to jesus my lord and savior) this is just an example

ive walked outa churchs for stuff like that

i had a preacher hand me a application to join a church and it asked me things like what my annual income was ect ect

i walked out of that church too ,,,

just like my left wing sister said (bill clinton isnt your baby sitter) he's the president

and i said (you darn right he aint my baby sitter and never will be )

i would get a bro and have a chat with this guy if hes doing what your saying

but like i said maybe its just me

[dcampsart]

I agree with what everyone has replied with here. I believe he should be approached but after a time of searching my own heart through prayer. I'd want to "check my six" and ask myself... what's behind my motive here.

I'd be as loving and as gentle as possible but I don't believe I'd let it go on unchecked!

[Hunterpoet]

Part one...our lives should be like a sacrament. People should be able to see in our actions, what has taken place in our hearts.

Part 2....It seems you are very close to him and see him through different eyes..by this I mean, to coin a phrase, his human side.

No doubt he does not meet your expectations.

[Paul 84]

I may start a controversy here, because I've read several times since shortly becoming a member; of nobody being perfect (of course beside Jesus our Saviour) but I don't agree with this statement. First of all let me state I"m not talking about sinless perfection. But in the sermon on the mount Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48) Reading verses 43-47 in the same chapter we find out the perfection Jesus is talking about here is LOVE! A perfect Chruch would be one that loves other members as Christ love us (I John 3:16-18). Paul wrote "And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness." (Colossians 3:13) Charity is an old english word for LOVE! Proverbs 10:12 "Hatred stirreth up strife: but love covereth all sins." "And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. (I Peter 4:8) If I ever find a church who has the love of the Holy Ghost in their heart you wouldn't be able to yank me out of there. But as to the matter of confronting this teacher/peacher the Bible gives strict methods of doing this in Matthew 18:15-17. But before doing anything of the sort I would recommend praying earnestly for the Holy Spirit guidance (John 15:26, I John 2:20,27). Gossip is one of the worst sins out there I'm not Pentecostal but one thing I admire about these brothers and sister in Chrisst is that they understand the tongue is one of the worst enemies of the Christians no believer can be perfected in love who can't control their own tongue but this is impossible for man so it much be the job of the Holy Spirit (James 3:1-18, see verse 8 especially). Jesus speaking of the Pharisee explain to the Jewish people to do as they taught them but don't do after their works (Matthew 23:2-3). Remind this person of Peter command to the Church see I Peter 3:8-13 and Ephesians 4:24-26,29. Remind him that his words aren't acceptable to God when he gossips (Psalms 19:14).

[sweet~lady]

StaceyC, you have been offered some very sound biblical advice in here..

If I may add something that I have learned please..

We do one another in The Body of Christ a gross injustice by not admonishing, correcting, and so forth as the need arises of course using discernment and always in love; sometimes with the help of another mature believer(s) present as the situation requires.. the first rule being to address them privately and go with others if he won't listen.

Speaking from personal experience, if we don't share what's on our hearts that is creating a stumbling block of offense how can the person realize/recognize their fault or need and therefore repent of their ways. In holding back we not only hurt ourselves but the contamination continues to spread like a virus out of control. Gossip is a serious stumbling block.

Just a few additional thoughts..

Hope this helps dear one.

[sweet~lady]

something else The Holy Spirit directed me too is found in Ep.5.6-11, but it would actually be very profitable for you to read Ephesians chapter 5 in its entirety and see what God has to say about walking as children of light..

Allow The Holy Spirit to illuminate your thinking.. He will make it clear; His word declares that He leads us into all truth! I depend on that.

blessings..

[stacey c]

I may start a controversy here, because I've read several times since shortly becoming a member; of nobody being perfect (of course beside Jesus our Saviour) but I don't agree with this statement. First of all let me state I"m not talking about sinless perfection. But in the sermon on the mount Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48) Reading verses 43-47 in the same chapter we find out the perfection Jesus is talking about here is LOVE! A perfect Chruch would be one that loves other members as Christ love us (I John 3:16-18). Paul wrote "And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness." (Colossians 3:13) Charity is an old english word for LOVE! Proverbs 10:12 "Hatred stirreth up strife: but love covereth all sins." "And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. (I Peter 4:8) If I ever find a church who has the love of the Holy Ghost in their heart you wouldn't be able to yank me out of there. But as to the matter of confronting this teacher/peacher the Bible gives strict methods of doing this in Matthew 18:15-17. But before doing anything of the sort I would recommend praying earnestly for the Holy Spirit guidance (John 15:26, I John 2:20,27). Gossip is one of the worst sins out there I'm not Pentecostal but one thing I admire about these brothers and sister in Chrisst is that they understand the tongue is one of the worst enemies of the Christians no believer can be perfected in love who can't control their own tongue but this is impossible for man so it much be the job of the Holy Spirit (James 3:1-18, see verse 8 especially). Jesus speaking of the Pharisee explain to the Jewish people to do as they taught them but don't do after their works (Matthew 23:2-3). Remind this person of Peter command to the Church see I Peter 3:8-13 and Ephesians 4:24-26,29. Remind him that his words aren't acceptable to God when he gossips (Psalms 19:14).

Paul, you started no controversy with me and I really liked your post.

Theres alot of truth in it.