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also Addicts remain addicts. i.e. Alcoholism there is no such thing as a former alcoholic they are always going to be alcoholic they have to adapt strategies in their lifestyles to avoid the temptation of Alcohol

I don't think they are trying to pervert your words Shilo. The disagreement from my perspective seems not to be what the bible says about homosexuality but the nature of forgivness and the wages of sin. The bible says all sins are damning and equal before the lord correct me if I am wrong on this. So to single out those that claim they suffer from homosexuality as being doomed to hell seems to others that you are singling out a specific group. Applying your logic to other groups. Men who are repeat adulterers are just as guilty as the homosexuals as in both cases they have a sin originating from their heart the difference being one acts on that sin the other does not this makes it seem like you are overly focusing on the homosexual sin as some how being worse than the other sins. Lets try to put some perspective on the matter This group views that they are plagued by homosexual temptations this does not mean that they are homosexual does it? If I were to say I am plagued by drug abuse and the only way for me to keep my addictions at bay is to abstain from associating with drug abusers and situations that would put me into a place of temptation. They are abstaining from sex because this will trigger temptation that is unnatural to them. This is their best solution and they are trusting god to protect them from sin.

wow! are we missing the Lord's word in regards to homosexuality? does He say any where.... if you abstain you will be saved? sadly as it may sound; it does not say it anywhere. Our Savior is so clear and we are so vague trying to accommodate His word to our life style as suppose to adhere to His word to better our life style. I am guilty of that myself. There is only one way to heaven through our Lord Jesus Christ. Someone on this post said that if someone would abstain that good for them that they deserve their salvation... my dear people nobody and I say nobody deserves to be saved. We who are saved are so exclusively because of an amazing grace and mercy. Praise and honor and power be Yours Father forever and ever amen.

God does not condemn the homosexuality in the Bible. He condemns inhumanity, lacking sympathy and the avoidance at turning of God to heathen gods. This gets clear if one reads the context. Yes, God does condemn homosexuality as an abomination. One of many sins, but a nasty perversion that He needed to mention. Sexual purity is the context.

Further from the OT... See: http://www.witnessfortheworld.org/homoot.html Genesis 1:27—Many religious homosexuals argue that God “created” them as homosexuals, but this passage refutes without question that God did not “create” as an original purpose same gender sexual relationships. Furthermore, to date, there is no credible proof that homosexuality is genetic, an argument raised in an attempt to negate the truth of God’s creative intent. Genesis 6:19 —God instructs Noah to preserve only male/female pairings of animals to propagate each species. God's intent is proof of the dead, unfruitful nature of homosexuality opposite the living, fruitful and creative nature of God. Supports the opposite gender sexual intent even in the animal kingdom. Genesis 9:20-24 — The Bible’s first recorded instance of homosexual activity. Noah’s dereliction of duty as a leader allowed the activity to occur. There was no blessing of this activity, but rather a curse. Genesis 10:15-19 — Caanan, the grandson was the direct ancestor of the inhabitants of Sodom. This establishes “familiar” spirits within family associations. Genesis 19:4-13 —The story of Sodom’s sins of greed, hatred and sexual perversion (as told Ezekiel 16:49) is one of the most widely referenced and hotly debated texts concerning homosexuality there are. The main point is that pride (in one’s sins) will invariably draw God’s wrath. Homosexuality is the “case in point” sin here. Leviticus 5:3 —God addresses situational moral sins. The word “uncleanness” is translated from the Hebrew tame Because sexual contact between males was defiling, God charged the priests and Levites to deal with it as object lessons of his holiness. Leviticus 18:22;24-30 —This is the second, more distinct command issued by God prohibited male/male sexual relations. Contrary to biblical revisionists who say this scripture does not foresee “committed, monogamous gay relationships,” Leviticus 18:22 is a sweeping condemnation of all homosexual unions whether forced or consensual. Leviticus 20:13 —This is the 3rd warning issued advising homosexuals of the consequences of their actions. Like a father God allows opportunity for repentance, but when it is refused he imposes the death sentence. The word “abomination.” is derived from the Hebrew “toevah”, which denotes a clash of basic dispositions between the righteous and unrighteous. Hence, homosexuality was seen as destructive to the family structure and society. Duet 22:5 — Prohibits cross dressing (transvestism) among the sexes. These were specific practices of the idols worshippers inhabiting Canaan. Most of the practices were meant to appease the “gods” and thereby gain a good harvest. Deut 23:17 —God is sovereign and he commanded that there be no homosexuals (sodomites from the Hebrew word Qadesh, which specifically pointed to male homosexuals who worshipped false gods. Ashtoreth/Astarte was the Canaanite deity who required this type of devotion. Judges 2:11-13 —The religion of the Canaanites (descendents of Ham) was as corrupt and vile a religion as one could get. It involved on a regular basis child murders (sacrifice), self -mutilation, ritual prostitution and homosexuality. Most pro-homosexual religionists say God does not have a problem with their sexual preference, but this indicates that God considered it ”evil.” Judges 19:22-24 —This passage is almost identical to the Genesis passage involving Sodom, although it involves a completely different group of people. Interestingly enough, the people of Gibeah were related to the Sodomites. 1Kings 14:22-24 —This passage highlights the rise of “tolerance” and evil it brings when sin is promoted through government. Governments should never sanction immorality because it has a destructive element which affects all people, both direct and indirectly. The King was strongly influenced by the “diversity" of his mother, Namah (verse 21) of the Ammonites who were relatives of the Sodomites. 1Kings 15:11-13 — Today many people get offended and question why homosexuality is “singled out,” but in this passage, the scribe does exactly that. Out of 13 other hideous Canaanite-adopted practices, the practice of sodomy-influenced religion in Israel was specifically treated as a specific threat to the security, health and religious integrity of God’s people. Asa, unlike Rehoboam before him, removed his own mother who also followed "tolerance" policies. Tolerance is dangerous when it is not based on biblical love. 1Kings 22:43;46 — Jehosaphat, the head of state did what was “right” in the eyes of the Lord and removed religious homosexuals from influential positions within the country. This was a civil decision based on God's commandments. It shows how secular leaders can cause blessings to come upon the land by refusing to allow laws and policies which hurt and damage the well being of the nation at large. 2Kings 23:4-7— Josiah, another King of Isreal institutes reforms which specifically call for the removal of homosexuals who were influential in leading Isreal astray. His actions were part of a “covenant” with God. Ezekiel 16:49,50— God did not destroy Sodom primarily because of the gross practice of homosexuality. Although it is evident it was a deciding factor, Sodom’s sin of pride exacerbated their offensiveness to God. The lesson to contemporary gays: STOP the “gay pride” marches! Daniel 11:37— A reference to the sexual nature of the antichrist as envisioned by Daniel. The word “desire” is from Hebrew chamad, which point to lust and desire associated with male/female sexuality.

God does not condemn the homosexuality in the Bible. He condemns inhumanity, lacking sympathy and the avoidance at turning of God to heathen gods. This gets clear if one reads the context. Interesting but I would have to disagree. God condemns homosexuality in the Bible. Which Bible are you using? From this source: http://www.witnessfortheworld.org/homont.html Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited. Romans 1:18-32 —Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature. 1Cor 6:9-11—The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God. Galatians 5:19 — Many areas that the apostle traveled to take the gospel indeed were very accepting of homosexual practices, yet he did not back away from communicating the sinfulness of such practice. Corinth, Ephesus and Rome as well as other major cities of the ancient world, were all too often cesspools of all forms of sexual immorality. Undeterred, Paul drew from sources familiar to him and forged them with New testament teachings of God’s grace to forgive and cleanse. In the letter to the Galatians, he teaches that the “works [not plurality] of the flesh are manifest. The flesh or sinful human nature is always considered and enemy to God. Ephesians 5:3-7— Paul repeats his warnings against “uncleaness” to the church at Ephesus. Colossians 3:5-7 — Paul issues his third warning against “uncleaness” to the church at Colosse. This time he adds instructions on overcoming/controlling the sin. Believers are to mortify or deaden themselves and exercise self control (a fruit of the Spirit) over such actions. Homosexuals claim that denying the free expression of homosexuality is "suppressing one's true self", but scripture clearly instructs that we are hold our bodies in check and refuse it participation in sexual immorality. This passage further emphasizes that no one should expect to escape the “wrath of God” except they repent. 1 Tim 1:10 — the law was not made for the righteous, but for the “lawless and disobedient.” The law (of Moses) encompassed the ceremonial, judicial and moral components of human interaction. Christ neutralized the ceremonial aspects but upheld the judicial and moral aspects, tendered with grace and mercy. Hence, homosexuality remains a sin "worthy of death" but yet qualified for forgiveness through repentance. The phrase Paul uses “defiling themselves with mankind” is another link of homosexual behavior to disobedience and uncompatible to sound or acceptable Christian doctrine. Titus 1:16 — This is an aggressive attack and exposure of the psychosis of those who are “defiled” and commit “abominations". Again, let us identify the source of the Apostle Paul’s strong condemnation. When one accepts what God has pronounced abominable (by God’s own definition) and rejects the created model which God has pronounced good, a process of hardening and mental perversion begins to take root in the mind. Such is the danger of justifying sin. Sin corrupts the mind and conscience (the seat of individual integrity and morality) rendering it incapable of making spiritually sound decisions. Jude 1:4,7,19 — Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after “strange flesh.” I believed Jude was describing contemporary "gay christians". His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning “another flesh with the same quality.” His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God. Rev 21:27—The final book of the Bible, finalizing a complete picture stunning denouncements of all forms of homosexual conduct. From Genesis to Revelation, the Word of God firmly establishes once and for all the sinfulness of homosexuality, but also provides a wide opportunity for repentance and redemption through Jesus Christ. Homosexuality, as seen through the eyes of scripture is a spiritual aberration, a result of the fallen nature of man, a disease of the soul. It produces nothing life giving, in essence opposite of the nature of God who is life. Therefore it “worketh” or produces abomination which is death.

I don't understand a group (that denies it is a group) erecting a monument to themselves....after all, atheists believe in nothing (according to them) so what is the point of a monument? I think they should have it, don't get me wrong, but I'm tired of the American Atheists Association insisting they aren't a movement and hold no beliefs. Opinions anyone? http://www.christianpost.com/news/fla-courthouse-to-have-first-in-the-nation-atheist-monument-96984/

After encountering many people in my life who fear they've committed the unpardonable sin, I would like to offer encouragement to those who come here to Worthy with that same concern: If you are fearful that you've committed the unpardonable sin - do not worry - you haven't. If you did commit it, you would have no concern at all for your salvation. In the Bible, Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them." (John 6:44) The very desire for salvation through Christ comes from the Father Himself. The Bible says that if God did not draw the sinner, absolutely no one would seek God. "There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks after God." (Romans 3:11) It is God the Father who gives the lost to Jesus. Jesus said, "All that the Father gives me will come to me..." And He then makes a wonderful, beautiful promise, "...and the one who comes to me I will in no way cast out." (John 6:37) If you have the desire to be saved - you can be - for that desire only comes from God Himself. If you had committed the unpardonable sin, you would have no desire for salvation whatsoever. You would not be drawn toward Jesus at all. Why would God give you a desire to be forgiven, if He did not want to forgive you? Repentance and faith are special gifts of God, which He would not bestow on any man if He were determined never to pardon him. The Bible never teaches that God will refuse to forgive anyone who wants forgiveness. God's Word never teaches that a sinner can beg for salvation, but that the Lord will refuse to hear, or to save. Also, the Holy Spirit reproves people of sin. A person who has truly blasphemed the Spirit will, again, have no desire for salvation, because the Spirit will never come to him to reprove him of his sins. And no Christian can commit the unpardonable sin for the simple reason that on the matter of salvation, the issue is settled, his sins are already pardoned. Jesus paid the whole price. All of a Christian's sins have been forgiven - past, present, and future. In other words, the very act of being concerned about the possibility of having committed this sin, is a sure giveaway that one's heart has not been hardened in sin. If the Devil can make you doubt the assurance of salvation, he can beat you senseless and make your life miserable and fruitless. Notice in the following verses that no one is excluded from salvation through Christ if they truly seek it. Acts:2:21: "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Matthew 7:8 "For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." Romans 1:16: "I am not ashamed of the Gospel because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes." Romans 10:13: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." Remember: "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:9) Jesus did not endure the incredible agony of the cross to not save anyone who sincerely seeks salvation. ​Now stop worrying and rest in the arms of the good Shepard who will leave the 99 to seek the one that is lost. (Luke 15:4) Blessings! - Tinky (with a little help from various contributors)

Islam and socialism are not compatible......in any way. Islam is attempting to gain a strong foothold in America but it's not tied to socialism. Let's keep the evil agendas straight as they need to be dealt with in different ways. Actually, Islam will use whichever ideology it has at it's disposal at the moment until it gains the majority. Then it will simply kill all other adherents. Let's not forget that Islam was in bed with the National Socialist's of the last century. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was aligned with the Nazi's. Let's also be wise because whether it's Global Socialism, National Socialism, or it's Islam it's all of the devil. Each one of those systems leads to mass death.

And what about those who are addicted to pride, envy or self-righteousness? Are they any less guilty in God's sight? I reckon they need love and forgiveness just as those who are tempted towards heterosexual or homosexual sin. Judgment and condemnation from other people doesn't help anyone get out of things that ensnare them.

What is your purpose for asking? <--that question is for you. I don't need an answer. Do you know a Christian who isn't living in unrepentant sin? I don't. I used to think that I was one but I was turning into a Pharisee. To be free from unrepentant sin, one must live in a state of perfect selflessness as is the divine nature. Can you do that consistently? Do you know anyone who can? I don't. Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. Did God put us here to be our brothers judge or his keeper? A judge judges and a keeper keeps. My job is to help my brother who is in error see the truth so that he might be led to repentance and escape condemnation. According to 1 Cor 11, many were weak, sickly and some had died due to the way they lived as Christians but they were still considered Christians. Unless we have walked a mile in another's shoes, we cannot empathize with their position. How can I know how to help another if I have never been in the same position? Have I suffered in unrepentant sexual sin and recovered? If I have then I only need to look at how I was delivered from it to share my experience, strength and hope with the one who still suffers from it in order to lead them out. Jesus spoke of this in Matt 7 and it is covered in Hebrews as well when it speaks about the priest who has to offer first for his own sin. A good book to help someone who struggles with seeing the sin in others and focusing on everyone else rather than ones own walk with Christ is The Screw Tape Letters by C.S.Lewis. The devil is always ready to point out to us that which is wrong with our brothers and sisters so that we will slip into a state of self-righteousness and begin to condemn the rest of the church. It is easy to do. Another thing that aids me in not being so judgmental of a struggling brother or sister is working to see things through biblical principle rather than the act itself. Jesus said that there was no difference between being angry without cause and murdering another. The underlying principle is the hatred in ones heart that manifests itself in different forms. Where is my heart? Do I hate my brother for being in unrepentant sin? Or do I worry about him because of his sin and bring him before the throne of grace daily seeking to stand in the gap? What I see in others followed by what I do about it says more about me and the condition of my heart than it does about them. I must be careful to keep the sheep and not beat the sheep. If I am honest I can look inside my own heart and find unrepentant sin related to selfishness and self-centeredness. Maybe I should repent. In His Love.

sorry shilo while paul was imprisoned its not quite what you made it out to be. Here is a really good link on the matter https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/144-pauls-two-year-roman-imprisonment I always interpreted the thorn in his side as dealing with sin not a physical ailment. My background was that of a southern Baptist. My preacher at first Baptist in Selma,AL preached as much. so my understanding is that the implication is we all have sin's that tempt us that are unique to the individual i.e. some struggle with lying others lust etc. We all have to face these temptations with the holy spirit guiding us and protecting us. We falter from these sins when we stray from god. The thorn in ones side is a reference to individual struggles of sin imho.

Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

They would justify being gay, just not the act... But that is illogical. That is like saying its okay to WANT to murder, as long as you just don't do it. It's like saying that it's okay to WANT to molest children even if you don't act on it. We don't justify any other sin the way you and others try to justify homosexuality. There is no other sin in existence were people think it is okay to want to commit that sin even if they don't do it. Homosexuality is the ONLY sin treated, even by "Christians" in this way. Exactly and God The Son has spoken directly to this issue- Mt 5:28-30 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. NKJV It does not get any clearer than this.... if one is to be free of evil it must be in the heart Jn 3:3 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." NKJV And it is not rocket science... Love, Steven

I would leave that church. ~ Push Back But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33 For Sure Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5 See Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

Matthew 24 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

I'm not really sure... but can I quote you on this?

I have noticed that some people associated "cold church" with some form of welcomeness or friendlyness to new comers. Perhaps that is what you meant. But if not, then the issue may lie way deeper, in our hearts. This issue was addressed in early centuries: 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Do not expect for the church to be hot o cold, but look into your heart, how cold or hot you can be to others. It is not about them, it is about you. And may be one day you will do what Peter did.

No sin has been made acceptable by God ... any violator of one sin is guilty of all sins Ja 2:10! God has not justified sin but the sinner by the granting of repentance (which is a turning from sin), given a new birth (so that we see as God see's about sin), and a new desire to be holy like God 'IS' Holy... God will eternally torture sinners for their choice to remain in their sins! I believe that is as harsh as it gets... Love, Steven

Lots of people give questionable advice and opinions. We see it every day, on forums such as this. Why can we not give a little grace?

Now that the upgrade to the new server is complete, search is finished, and the new upgrade to the skin is done, it is time to QA and look for errors. George will be back on Sunday to start fixing the many issues the upgrade created. If you find something wrong, let's start a list so when he does come back, we can present him with what we have found! I'll start with the most obvious ... Quote feature is broke Number feature is broken username array above last post date/time is broke is any forum

Read the original constitutional ammendment about religion and the state. You personally do not have to separate it at all.

Brother, I'd be interested to hear your comments on Homosexual abuse and the Roman Catholic church. Meanwhile, these folks are cutting ties because the next step will be Homosexual Scout Leaders and I don't know about you, but my children will not be shepherded by that lot and neither would I let my son spend the night away on a camping trip with them. Cutting ties does not mean that we will not communicate the Gospel to them or even stop loving them. It means that we need to come out of Babylon, IMO. I believe that we also obey the command to be Holy when we do cut ties with them. We communicate the Gospel in many ways by our resistance to be associated with the works of darkness in this world. Just another perspective and my two cents.

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Obviously this gay thing is going to happen, because it's already happening. But the world won't become a better place for it. How do I know? Well, other than that God says it's sin, I know because when I was young, we wanted approval for easy divorces, and legal abortions. We wanted men and women to be able to live together in constant sin of fornication, and we wanted to be accepted. We got all these things and more. We thought it would make the world a better place. But it didn't. That's how I know. Whenever mankind goes against what God told us to do things don't get better. And why is that? Because God knows what's best for us. He's not looking to ruin all our fun. In fact He's trying to make sure we live these short lives in such a way that we can spend eternity in bliss with Him. If only everyone would get it into their hearts and heads that God wants the best for us. And that may not be what we want right now. But it is what we will want after we die and see the big picture. If only everyone would see this.

I know the law is good if it is used lawfully, and much of the issues of the world and the world system are rightly judged according to the knowledge of sin. But in the Church, should we not move to the higher standard given to us? I think maybe some see "love" as some unsure rule that cannot be defined in clear terms? But I would say that if we lifted the true moral standard and taught that we have passed from the written code into the higher laws of love, we would much more into body of Christ.

I'm a sinner so I am a hindrance... but in the same I am a follower of Christ (Christian) so I am an access. I'm a hypocrite, I don't always do what I need to do and say what I need to say but sometimes I do. If I was perfect I wouldn't need Christ. As a Christian I try to live my life by good works so Christ can be seen in me but I do slip. So to answer the question you ask isn't easy for any fleshly person. Just like it says in Mat 26:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." My spirit is truly willing to be an access to Christ but my sinful flesh sometimes becomes a hindrance not only for others but for myself as well.