brakelite

Uh huh. Like for example Romans 6:23.

We have been informed with much boldness that real Bible scholars take the Bible literally...when it suits them. Because the following has not taken place yet, and because it cannot take place in the new earth, the only option is for it to be fulfilled in the 'millenium'. KJV Jeremiah 4 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. There are other texts describing a time to come where the earth is empty and devoid of life...in fact so broken down after the 6th plague no life is possible.

1. First prove that God would approve of this trampling upon the blood of His Son. 2. Then prove that if a temple is built at all it will survive the desolation of the final plagues. 3. After that prove that Israel has repented of her unbelief and accepted Christ as their Savior. Because Christ is the ONLY way of salvation even for Jews. 4. If said temple is built, prove it would be the temple of the Lord. The old temples were honored because of His presence. Do you seriously believe He would once again abide in a man-made building with unconverted priests offering useless sacrifices to a God they murdered and rejected 2000 years previous? 5. Finally it is believed the Antichrist would desolate or dishonor this establishment. How can he make unholy something that was pronounced desolate by the Boss long ago? "Your house [noteb no longer my house or my Fathers house] , your house is leftunto you desolate. God's promises to Israel were conditional. Israel failed and the kingdom was given to another nation who would return the fruits. Read again the parable of the wicked husbandmen.

If God was prone to human emotions, he would be so utterly frustrated that after all the information freely offered in scripture as to antichrist's nature...identity...life-span...character etc (I could give a list of at least 10 clear identification characteristics which point unerringly to who it is) yet there is a vast array of opinions and interpretations pointing in all directions. I mean, with all the information offered it is obvious God wants us to be warned. He wants us to known of a surety, who it is. I don't know what the divine equivalent to frustration is but if there is one, there's surely a lot of it about right now.

Every reformer, from the 12th to the 18th century, from Wycliffe to Luther, from Calvin to Cranmer, and dozens in between, pointed their collective fingers at Rome and proclaimed the Roman papacy as the Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Were they right? If one was to give any credence to modern Christianity's view, the reformation was a major mistake, and the reformers all religious radicals deceived and influenced by the times in which they lived. If however they were right, and the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the Antichrist as they claimed, then when one considers the current swell of interest in all things Catholic...the marked increase of late in unity with that system...and the current push by many leading Protestant pastors and clergyman to discard any further pretence to caring over differences of theological doctrines, then I would strongly suggest we are all in big trouble. Antichrist entered the 'temple of God' , the church, 1700 years ago, and today apostate protestantism is giving him the throne.

I would like to clarify a couple of things about the meaning of ‘Antichrist’. Before we look at the antichrist however, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be. Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the very law of God enshrined within. (Or at least it used to be). Only one person can be greater than any law of God, and that is the lawgiver. 38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah. 42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon. In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King. It has been said, and I think wisely, that the Bible must be understood grammatically before it can be understood theologically. Anti– as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”. In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this? In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce. Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a ‘son of perdition’ is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. Judas didn't set out at the beginning to betray Jesus. In fact, I would suggest that he may even have had Jesus' interests at heart, thinking perhaps to force His hand in openly declaring Himself as Messiah. In doing so however, Judas took over the ministry. He became a supplanter. The term 'antichrist' has in that sense meaning of supplanter. "In the room of", "instead of". Opposing yes, but not in open warfare, but subtly...deceptively...publicly confessing faithfulness and allegiance to truth...but effectually displacing the truth with a counterfeit. Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood as in ministry; the Prophet or spokesmanship; and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God. Satan has many counterfeits. Now counterfeits are almost identical to the true. You do not get counterfeit 99$ notes. You get counterfeit 100$ notes. And unless you get trained and disciplined to know intimately the true 100$ note, you will not recognise the false. It has been estimated that every person in America who has regularly handled 100$ notes, has had pass through their hands a counterfeit at least 4 times a year! And not known it!!!!Unless you are intimately acquainted with the true Jesus, how will you recognise the counterfeit? So how does Antichrist counterfeit the threefold ministry of the true Christ, as Priest, Prophet and King? Is there an entity in the world today who claims to do just this? Is there one like Judas who is betraying the Master with a kiss, all the while claiming to be a friend? Is there in the world today a religious system or religious ruler who claims to be the earthly representative of Christ as His priest, claiming to be a mediator between God and man? Claiming to forgive sin even? Does this entity also claim the prerogatives of a prophet? Does it claim to speak for God in spiritual matters? Does it claim to stand as Gods spokesman on earth and claim that only through it’s authority can salvation be found? And finally, does this entity also claim to be a king? Does it claim authority as a secular power? Does it exercise authority and power within the auspices of a church/state relationship? I think you all know the answer is yes.There is an entity in the world today who claims all the above Godly prerogatives which belong only to Jesus Christ. Priest, prophet and king.This entity has set itself up as counterfeit and thus can be affirmatively identified as the antichrist, the impostor and impersonator of the true. And this entity can be found in the Roman Catholic church system. In Roman Catholic theology is also the embedded principle of ‘replacement’ or ‘displacement’ of Jesus.The entire sacramental system is based on the premise that only through participation in the sacraments as administered by Rome, can anyone hope for eternal life. Rome does not recognise any path to eternity apart from that which she has ordained through the priesthood under the headship of the Roman bishop. Thus Rome has implemented a system of works that men must do, or tasks that men must accomplish, be it confession to a priest, penance, participation in mass, partaking of the Eucharist, pilgrimages to shrines or basilicas, recitation of the rosary, or prayers to Mary or the saints and many other ‘religious’ acts, all for the purpose of salvation. The Protestant principle of ‘sola fide’, faith only, is anathema to Rome. The Roman system is antichrist to its very core, and today is garnishing all its power and authority to once again rule. But its ambitions go beyond Europe. Gone are her limited goals of a European empire. Today she lusts for global power. She is the first beast of Revelation 13. A composite of all those ancient pagan literal powers that have gone before. Babylon...Meda-Persia...Greece...Rome. But no longer physical literal local powers, as prophecy is fulfilled in NT times, she is a global spiritual power. The second beast of Revelation 13 is the entity that gives the first beast its power. Satan, through the second beast, establishes the authority of the first. So who is the second beast? If the first beast is a global spiritual entity centered in Rome, what spiritual global entity is the second beast, and where is she centered? I suggest that the second beast is apostate Protestantism. Today religious news is full of articles declaring the new found friendship between Protestants and Catholicism. Not only is the current Pope boasting of how he is the only person with the moral mandate to rule the world, but apostate protestants such as Copeland etc are agreeing with him. And using the American legislative process and a pliant president,could very well in the near future place the antichrist on the throne has has always lusted for. Then you will see the fires of persecution rekindled. Europe of the dark ages will seem like a childrens birthday party in comparison.

And that is precisely what took place in 70ad.

That is quite understandable. Just as the Son of God is the image of His Father, [in character] so the beast/Antichrist is in character just like his father, Satan. But your confusion is even more understandable when every post on this thread mixes beasts and mixes the metaphors. Not all the beasts in scripture describe him, and none of the beasts represent an individual. It is no coincidence that as the modern church moves away from its protestant roots and reaches over the abyss to hold hands with Rome in one hand and with spiritualism in the other, she abandons the one thing upon which all the reformers agreed. The true identity of the Antichrist.

I might point out that many Egyptians...the 'mixed multitude'...escaped the plagues and crossed the Red Sea along with Israel but did not continue in walking in the light and truth offered. Yet the blood of the Passover Lamb availed for them...but not to salvation in their entering into Canaan. Same with the blood of Christ. It covers all: but not all will walk that narrow way of obedience and love and finally walk through the gates into the new Jerusalem...the true promise land.

Several points. Christ died for all men. He 'died for all' and tasted 'death for every one'. 2 Cor.5:14; Heb. 2:9. At Christ's baptism the Father accepted the human race in Christ. Matt.3:17. Therefore He is already the Savior of all men. John 4:42. No-one can or should doubt that he/she has been accepted in the Lord. 1 Tim. 4:10...especially of those that believe. Our salvation does not depend on our initiating a relationship with Him...it depends on our believing/responding to the 'relationship' He has already initiated with us. Christ has abolished death (2Tim.1:10) since none need be lost unless he chooses to reject what Christ has already accomplished on his behalf the only reason he can be lost is his unbelief. John 3:16-19 All are redeemed, but not all have accepted redemption. Many say to Christ...we will not have this man to reign over us....and they thrust the blessing of God away from them. But redemption is for ALL. All have been purchased with the precious blood...the life...of Christ, and all may, if they choose, be free from sin and death. In seeking us, (there is no parable of the lost sheep seeking its shepherd), Christ came all the way from the throne of the universe to where we are, taking upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. Thus He is a Savior "nigh at hand,not far off". He is the "Savior of all men" even "the chief of sinners". But sinners have the freedom to refuse Him and reject Him.

The church is built upon Christ as its foundation; it is to obey Christ as its head. It is not to depend upon man, or be controlled by man. Many claim that a position of trust in the church gives them authority to dictate what other men shall believe and what they shall do. Such a claim has no merit whatsoever. The Saviour declares, "All ye are brethren." Everyone is exposed to temptation, and are liable to error. No-one is infallible, no, not even the pope. Upon no mortal finite being can we depend for guidance. The Rock of faith is the living presence of Christ in the church. Even the weakest least knowledgeable person may depend on the Spirit of God to impart to them understanding and to reveal truth. "Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm." The Lord "is the Rock, His work is perfect." "Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him." Jeremiah 17:5; Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 2:12

I trust my explanation was sufficient to back up my original thoughts. Tin foil hats aside, I am not so naive to think that any physical hat could have saved this world from the misery and woe that ensued. I was speaking about the principles behind the practice of head-covering...principles that existed long before the symbolism was established.

You are right, my apologies.

I thought you could have worked that out for yourself, given your reputation. I am not talking about a physical head covering. Like I said, think spiritually. Eve began speaking to the serpent on her own. Perhaps, perhaps, if she had acknowledged her dependence upon her husband and Creator (headship) she may not have been so bold as to believe she could debate with the serpent on matters clearly beyond her understanding. She may rather have given her husband that reponsibilty, who may have in turn acknowledged his headb even Christ, saying "the Lord rebuke you".

Think spiritually.

If Eve was wearing a head-covering when speaking of spiritual matters with the serpent, perhaps she may not have been so easily deceived.

The conversation and theme of the thread is about modesty, and respect for authority. I am not talking about the extremes of twisted religion. I offered my personal opinion that scarfs as worn by Muslim women in the parks and shopping malls as I have observed in the city where I live in Australia are...to quote myself...nice. Regardless of the deep motives behind such practices in Saudi Arabia and Iran , in my local park the Muslim women are, without any Muslim men present even in the humid heat of 35', demure and modestly refreshing, despite what western feminists think of the practice. When I see criticism of this from western women, I think it highly hypocritical if they refrain from criticism of the nakedness they allow their own children to expose on public beaches.

Oh okay. So you think Muslim women would prefer not to wear a covering and give the men carte blanche? Might I suggest that regardless of the source of authority it is still modesty. What is the source of authority do you think that allows for western Christian women to wear skimpy bikinis at the beach and pretend western men aren't affected?

Miss Muffet mentioned earlier that culture now defines what we do and how we behave. Personally, while not demeaning culture in any way, I believe the Bible is now and always will be our defining authority. Now I admit that I don't completely understand Paul's reasoning behind head coverings. What I observe however, culturally, is women, even in the church, following the dictates of fashion by dyeing, braiding, and decorating themselves in order to draw attention to themselves. This is what Paul was thinking about I think, at least partially. As for the Muslim women I have no idea as to their motives as far as authority and submission is concerned but I do find the practice refreshingly modest in a society riven with vanity and pride.

Will there be animal sacrifice during the 1000 years millennium? No.

I live in a city that has a large Muslim population. I like the modest head coverings worn by the women. Not so keen on the full burkha, but the simple scarf ...nice.

Love is selflessness. It is self-sacrificial giving. It is the fulfilment of the law, and the benchmark of greatest commandment of the law. It is the character and nature of God. Jesus came [partly] to show us the nature of the Father...thus Jesus is love personified. If you want to know what love truly is...read the gospel of John. PS. Love is what we are to reveal if we claim to be recreated in the image of Jesus. It is the first and foremost virtue which naturally results from the Christian's relationship with God. KJV 1 John 4 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

The just shall live by faith....If you believe that you cannot stop sinning, then you don't believe the following scriptures.... KJV Ephesians 3 Paul's Prayer 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Truth is always more convincing when people discover it for themselves. Can the false abominations of Antichrist be built on solid foundations?

Who said anything about law.? I said Manufacturers instructions. You follow Mr Chrysler's instructions not to put water in your brake cylinder, why not have the same respect for your own body?