Donibm

I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community. HEAVILY populated. But I think you may be off beat. #1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation. Adam was no "Jew". Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself. In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian. He was no Hebrew. And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of. Jethro was no hebrew. Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did. In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God. That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him. So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses. Even now. Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin. Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born. #2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation. Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God. But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant. Have you not read the Scriptures? a) Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come. he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation". He was WAITING for it. b) Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The Scripture is clear to me. It is about Jesus. It is falling on the New Covenant. The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either. If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic. I think you are confusing two things. "Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". I'm confused by what you are saying here. It sounds like replacement theology. LOL No Oak, I'm not one of those who side with replacement theology. I only speak what is IN the Word of God. Now, to some it may be (to them), but as the author of the words, and knowing what RT is, I know that it is not. For example, I can say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism (and I do, and I mean it)... and right away, the "pro-Israel" people will label as a RT. But here is the truth: Judaism promotes a Messiah. That is the core of it. If it fails to show a Messiah, it will be an utter failure. Christianity shows that Messiah. That is why I say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, and I mean it. I also understand the Conditional First Covenant and how/where it applies to all the other Covenants (yes, there are more than just two) and the Unconditional New Covenant ... and how some people confuse them over each other. Not RT, Isaiah does say that who and what Israel is. he clearly shows that Israel are they who turn from sin. Not RT, Paul more clearly shows that the true Jew is one who is INWARDLY (circumcised heart unto the Lord). Not RT, God Himself shows us in both prophecy of the Messiah, and again in Scriptures post the Messiah. But, that was not the core of my response. My response to the OP was focused more on the thread - that Salvation couldn't have been in the past, in the context that he/she was suggesting, because they were LOOKING for that Salvation. You don't look for something in the past and ask about it towards the future. But to you, I just wanted to explain that I am not some hardcore RT person. There are elements that appear that way, certainly, and I know that many Jews will see damnation, but their promise to the land is eternal ... though I've never been certain on how that would apply ... considering the earth will be destroyed and a new earth made. But, that's never been very important to me either.

This says it all. And I would be careful of how much time, thought and energy one puts into the enemy - it gives allowance, imo. Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. I'm with you on time spent on the enemy. Dunno if that defaults to allowance though. But God only gives us a little, and it's all that we need. I suppose that is a nice thing. OUR adversary who we know only minute (though powerful) things about, is the very one who we will LOUDLY REJOICE over at his demise! For it is HIS temptation that lead to our fall, and this disgraceful flesh! But, glory be to God on the Highest! He had a plan for our deliverance since the very beginning: "The seed of the WOMAN [virgin birth] will bruise your head!" And so we serve a God whose face we have never seen. Who voice we have never heard directly. Whose glory we have not beheld. Unlike them, who were created before us. They saw His glory, heard His voice, lived in His kingdom. They know and are convinced that He is the One, True and Only Living God. They know ... because they see it directly for themselves. And they beheld His creation of us. But we have not seen ... and yet we believe. "How blessed are they who have NOT seen, but believe" For this reason, we shall rule OVER even the angels, who are created more mightily than we are. Because we have served and believed (in our simple abilities) when we have not seen. We are willing servants. But they are more towards "robotic" servants. They do because they are created to do. Because they see and don't know anything different. We do because we believe, because we fear, and because we love ... eventhough our eyes have never beheld. For this cause, God will elevate us higher in the end ... and we shall behold the final damnation of that age old serpent, who mocked and condemned and ridiculed us. Where then is the threat of Gog and Magog? The dragons teeth will no wise harm even the garments of even the least in the Kingdom of Heaven!

Sorry I don't understand this in red. A Christian perspective is based on the Word of God (the BIble). The Bible is indeed about God and Messiah. Yet the Bible is also how we understand what our role is as Christ-followers (Christians). How do you figure people who are living right by obeying the "goodness of their conscience will enter the Kingdom of God... and they've never heard the Gospel."? Rom. 10:14 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? I agree we are stewards of what God given us. What do you mean by "Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?" We aren't talking about robbing God. We're talking about what it means to be a good steward of what has given us if you will. Note too what I said earlier... The Spirit speaks through God's Word. Show me in Scripture how the Spirit speaks differently than what has been put forth? God bless, GE Hi eagles, Sorry, I made some errors in that thread and will amend. Well, I've been accused of "justifying" things in this particular web site, but, truth is truth, regardless of how it is perceived, and the truth is I"M AT WORK. Military Advisor ... on a christian webpage? LOL Scandalous. So, I'm always rushing from this location. Always. Obviously, Moses was an Israelite. Big whoops there right? :-) But, to focus on what I said in the red. Its' pretty easy once you know the DISPENSATIONS. Take for example, Adam - Moses. There was no law. No oracles. No Temple. No ... nothing. Consider Job. Job was no Hebrew, and the Law of Moses didn't exist, yet God called Him righteous. The point is, there are those who lived prior to the Law of Moses and so, they will not be judged by something that didn't even exist. Don't you see? Cain murdered, but he was never charged for murder. Noah was a drunk, but never accused. Abraham was an idol worshipper, but never condemned for it. Even Jacobs wife stole her fathers idols, and sat on them to hide them. Never condemned for it though. Why not? Because they were all under the dispensation of the conscious. And so it is with all nations who never heard of the Law of God. How can Asians be charged? how can ancient Russia? How can the islanders? They never heard of Moses or the Law, so, like the men who have never even heard of Israel, they too will fall under that dispensation ... even human beings living this very hour. They have never heard of Jesus or the Gospel, but they have souls right? They must also be judged right? But why would God judge them in accoradance to a Gospel they have never heard? He will not. Abraham insured that we would never misunderstand that about Gods nature: "Far be it from You to judge the righteous with the wicked!" Second red thing is, its not a Christian perspective. I'm not talking about THIS thread, as I tried to be clear about, but in EVERYTHING I see in threads, from the pulpit, in my life groups, personal conversations, academic settings, etc. I hear it too often "Christian" and "Christian" and "Christian" and I've grown to know that it's not about Christians. Not in the Old Testament nor the New. It's about CHRIST. But too often, a Christian pitches something, such as, "when CHRISTIANS get to Heaven" ... for example. I'm sorry, but Adam, Seth, Jeremiah, Melchesidek, Isaiah, Micah, and all the righteous who are not even part of the nation of Israel (such as Job) were not, and are not, Christians. My point is, it does not belong to CHRISTIANS. Now, if you look at it as christian vs psuedoChristian (or other religions), well, you will struggle with what I'm saying. But I know it is not a Christian or a Jew thing, but a SAINT thing. The SAINTS of God will be with God, and the SAINTS of God transcend both Judaism and Christianity. After all, there were saints of God long before Judaism itself existed. And by me typing "saint" does not imply any Catholic influence, because I remain uninfluenced by them, but I'm saying what Scriptures say. ALL who turn from sin are SAINTS of God. Didn't you see that in the Book of Isaiah? That hidden jewel? One moment isaiah says that only a remnant will be saved, but in another, he says ALL Israel will be saved, but in the Book of Isaiah, he also explains that true Israel are ALL who turn from sin, not just the bloodline of Jacob. Only a remnant of the bloodline will be saved, but ALL saints will be, be they Jew or Gentile. Paul merely piggy backed on that by saying that a true Jew is on who is INWARDLY, not one who simply shares blood with Jacob. It doesn't matter if they lived BEFORE the law of Moses. It doesn't matter if they never heard of it, or Jesus, or the Law, or the Gospel. As long as they "obey the goodness of their conscious" - which is the only thing that tells us what is right and what is wrong - they will enter Paradise. That is my point. Hope it makes sense now. Lastly, the third red thing is, too often people glorify themselves, instead of giving glory to God. And Christians have grown just as arrogant as Jews were in Judaism. They too thought they were "Gods special little people". They too thought that they had the promise and the oracles so that must've made them better then everyone else. And even in SIN they lived! And I see the Church doing the same exact thing. But when I read PROPHECIES concerning the end time, and even Christians, I see clearly the Word of God and what I see in real life: -men shall NOT heed sound doctrine -there WILL be a great falling away -you are the salt of the earth, what will happen to the world is the salt looses it flavor? LOOSES its flavor. LOOSES ITS FLAVOR! {I wish people would see that} It cannot be resalted. It CANNOT be resalted. IT CANNOT BE RESALTED! {again, I wish people would see that too} -ye are the light of the world Now ask yourself, "What is the state of the world" in terms of morality. Now ask yourself is the light is doing its job, or if the salt still has its flavor. These passages (and others) are talking about Christians. I don't know why Christians like to point at the world whenever the Word of God talks about "negative" things. Honestly, a great many Christians should read Jeremiah chapters 3-6. They should also read the warnings and admonishment of Paul, saying, "do not be prideful and puffed up, for if they, being a true branch, were broken off, how much more will YOU, being unnatural and grafted in, be broken off. Therefore, be not prideful, but serve God in fear!" Jer: For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. and again... Jer: Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God. and again... Jer: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased. How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses. They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbour's wife. Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this? And let's not forget that Jeremiah pleaded. But they did not listen. They did not want to see the err of there ways. how then is any Christain any different who reads this and simply says, "Oh, he's trippin. We are CHRISTIANS - gods favorite little people. God will never show anger or judgment towards us. he'll never wipe us from the Lambs Book of Life". To that I respond as Paul: "Oh you foolish Galatians! Who has lied to you that you should not obey the Truth!?" So even now I ask, where is the difference? How is the Church any better? Are you not under a greater Judgment since you have had the EXAMPLES of Israel .. but fail to have learned by them? Jesus Himself said that the cities/nations who are given greater knowledge and revelation will face a face worst Judgement, even a worst Judgment than wicked cities like Sodom, or Tyre, or even Babylon! Hopefully, this large booklet explains more about my intent in the things in red. EDIT: please keep in mind, this is by no means an allowance of other religions. Just because they "stop sinning" also. Ignore other religions and this may make more sense to you. There is much that I've left out becuase by the time my fingers catch up to my mind, I've already forgotten the thought and the Scripture that comes to mind as I type.

Absolutely not. God is without repentance. He knows the end from the beginning. Gen 6:6-7 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. KJV I know the Scripture well. :-) But kwiphilly already said it perfectly. We do things that GRIEVE Him, but He knows the end from the beginning. He has repented of nothing (in the context that He made some sort of mistake). Pray about it. After all, the only grievance God is experiencing is due to OUR actions as men. Yes ... or no? That is Scripture. Have you ever read God simply having a "bad day"? Have you ever read how He is grieved by angels? Me either. So, the only thing that seems to grieve and upset and anger Him, is mankind. He knows the end from the beginning. That is also Scripture: Isaiah 46:10. I mean, if someone already knows everything even before the earth was created, over a gazziblillion quadertripillion (yes, I'm making up those words because ETERNITY cannot be explained) years prior, well, how can they make a mistake or regret it ... understanding and knowing perfectly how they will feel as if the moment was already here? One cannot be omniscience if they make a mistake or regret their action. Of course a righteous and holy God could BE repented. BE grieved. Even the Holy Spirit is clearly grieved by the saints ... but no one applies that Scripture in these sort of dialogs. Does that mean that the Holy Spirit doesn't know before it happens? Of course not! The passages simply show a God of ... emotions (if I dare call it that). After all, we are made in HIS image and likeness. We experience certain 'emotions' and feelings because He does. That is why I see what I read the Scriptures. The CHARACTER of God is not as difficult to understand as people think. I think its the little bit of time they spend with Him to know Him ... or that they have never had the opportunity to be discipled, and unfortunately, not properly Churched either. But to me, it's all so very simple and easy to understand (and I profess to be no "super Christian". I simply love the Truth of Gods Word and His character, and I'm careful to not forget about HIM in the process of every other beautiful thing about Him).

Finally. It's absolutely immaterial what kind of fruit it was. The only thing that matters is the act of disobedience. Indeed. One day, we'll enjoy the fruits of the Trees of Heaven (without having to use the bathroom afterwards. :-)) Well, actually, I don't know. It is translated as "fruit", but if you want to be more academically correct, call it "produce". But, that word didn't even exist at the time of this writing ... if you want to get scholarly about it. So, it COULD have been a fruit or vegetable. But, in reality, most fruits grow on a tree or a vine, while many veggies grow on and under the ground. So, chances of it being a fruit is certainly higher. Not really a big deal, but again, if one wants to be absolutely academically safe, call it "produce".

Finally. It's absolutely immaterial what kind of fruit it was. The only thing that matters is the act of disobedience. Indeed. One day, we'll enjoy the fruits of the Trees of Heaven (without having to use the bathroom afterwards. :-))

Absolutely not. God is without repentance. He knows the end from the beginning. Gen 6:6-7 6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. KJV I know the Scripture well. :-) But kwiphilly already said it perfectly. We do things that GRIEVE Him, but He knows the end from the beginning. He has repented of nothing (in the context that He made some sort of mistake).

I have another thread on Good Friday, simply outlining that Jesus was crucified on Thursday, not Friday. And then I go into a few other things like the real name of Barabbas, Pilate, Jesus answering and then not answering (why?), etc. But, I've learned through the responders that some Christians really don't know much about this time of the year. I'm multicultural, descendant of an American, but born British. I've lived in different countries (lived and worked legally, not visited for a long time. lol) and have been blessed to see a lot of different cultures and observations. But there is one thing that certainly seems to be fading into oblivion - PALM SUNDAY. In fact, I don't recall hearing/reading anything from anyone. Not here nor on any other social media site I'm on. Not at work or at home, or in my private circles. I talked about GOOD FRIDAY (crucifixion Friday ... which was actually a Thursday) because I raised that matter in several locations, and of course radio ministers are speaking on it. But Good Friday is secular with it's kites (cross), and hotcross buns, and other worldy things. I doubt it will go away anytime soon, but the MEANING and PURPOSE seem to be suffering. And today is EASTER SUNDAY (resurrection Sunday). Even now I'm hurrying this while I wait on wifey to finish getting dressed. I guess today is the day for aliens to show up in the Church (people who do not attend, but come because of what today is). You know, those once a year folk. "Do these things in remembrance of ME" - Jesus To the brethren. Enjoy the festivities and enjoy the foods and fellowship with friends and family. But keep close to your heart the REAL reason for the seasons.

My serious question would be ... who told anyone that the devil was after your souls? Who told you that your life or death mattered to him? Suppose I told you something that was against the "normal" message you have been fed? Suppose I said that all that Satan does, isn't to 'win souls', but to try to SAVE HIMSELF? You think he accusses just to accuse? I doubt it. it's more like, "See how they sin? Aren't they worst than us? how then can you punish us to an eternity of damnation, yet you save those wretched beings?" The war in Heaven. Did it ever strike you that maybe, just maybe, Satan is trying to hinder the raptured souls from entering Heaven? Why else would he dare 'fight' knowing that God could speak a single WORD and utterly destroy him? Have you succumb to the worlds idea of "God vs. Satan" ... not realizing that God has no enemies, and Satan has no chance or desire to try to even fight God? The world is no deliverer of Truth, the the Bible never calls Satan Gods adversary or enemy. Never. God has no equal, and hence, no enemy. Why then, are the Jews the most persecuted race? Why is Christianity the most persecuted religion? Have you ever considered that the Word of God is all about the Messiah, but also centered on both the Jews and the Christians? Have you ever considered that Satan may have figured, "If i can wipe out either group, there is no way that God can fulfill His Word, and if He cannot fulfill His Word, He CANNOT send me to Hell!" Have you ever thought why demons TREMBLE? Have you ever thought why, after Satan looses that battle against Michael, and is finally and permanetly kicked out of Heaven, that he returns to earth with great wrath and clearly attempts to wipe out all remaining Jews who were left behind after the Rapture? The armies of Meggido surround Jerusalem. This is Satans last push to wipe them all out. His last chance to stop the Word of God. if he wipes them all out, god cannot fulfill His Word. Who lied to Christains, given some the idea that Satan is trying to win souls of men as some sort of trophy? He is not. HE IS TRYING TO SAVE HIMSELF FROM ETERNAL HELLFIRE!! He doesn't care about you or your fate. What does it matter if 1 or 1 trillion people join him in Hell if HE goes? He is trying to AVOID his own fate. He has to. The Messiah was no angel so no angels have a messiah to redeem them. But, men do. Two words: SELF PRESERVATION ... just something to think about. I mean, I wouldn't care about who is at my right of left for a terrible place like Hell either. All I'd try to do is devise a plan to NOT GO THERE. Satan has no Messiah or redeemer, so the only way he can avoid it ... is to break Gods Word. ANd to break Gods Word, he cannot attack God or Gods Kingdom, he can only wipe out the Jews or Christains. Been trying that for years over years ... even by the very hand of Ba'al, that Queen of Heaven, who calls herself "Christian".

It's talking about "in the BEGINNING". The BEGINNING is obviously the beginning of ALL things. But the passages does not, by any means, indicate that the Word (in this case, Jesus Christ), is no longer God. Furthermore, the whole purpose of the Gospel of John is to show that Messiah as GOD THE SON (which is past, present and future) - God.

The clean animals were for FOOD. That is primarily why more were needed. Both they and the animals needed to eat. Noah would have also taken in water and plant life and seeds and bugs for food.

LOL Well, I knew it wasn't a Biblical movie - just an ATHIEST who made a lot of money off of a biblical character. Fallen angels helping mankind? In the beginning there was NOTHING? Noah tripping out. shortage of food? Noah trying to kill his own grandchildren? God not once speaking or answering? It was a mockery. ... but, Prophecy cannot be stopped. And neither can Judgment. There is coming a day that all men will be equally clear on the realities of God, and His Word, and before their name is called, they will know that they are guilty ... and there shall be great fear and sever gnashing of teeth. They will tremble, weep and wail on that Day. And all of them, from Cain right on up to the last unsaved soul, will know that they are damned and lost ... even as the demons know they are heading for the fiery pit ... and they tremble greatly even now! So, let them mock. Let pretending Christains pretend. Let religious people think that their way is right. Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. The world has gone too far. The salt hast been loosing its flavor, and it CANNOT be resalted. Birthpains. It must get worst and worst. Prophecy cannot be broken. Prophecy cannot be stopped. God warned us, and I praise Him because His Word IS true. You cannot change the world. So, yes, let the tares grow up with the wheat. God Himself will seperate them from the wheat ... and burn them in the fire. You just work out your OWN Salvation with godly fear and seriuosness. The movie ... was a mockery. Anyone who loves the Word of God would take that film as an offense. But, God will have His vengence on the wicked. God is love? Sure is, but He is also a God of vengence and wrath ... and the Day of His Wrath is to come. Woe to those who laugh now, for they shall weep later.

The TRUTH is better than any modest word. The TRUTH could be that she has entered the depression that some mothers go through. The TRUTH is that the baby needs her, and it is her offspring. The TRUTH is that those who commit suicide will see damnation.

You need to understand, just because God knows the end from the beginning does NOT mean He said, "You are gonna be sick" and "you are gonna be rich" .... He already knows that you will not cover yourself and your family through prayer, and when your enemy "sows seeds while you sleep", He knows that you will try to blame Him ... while He sits on His throne saying, "Try blaming Me to my FACE when I bring you up hither." Did Job cease from praying? And Job suffered far more than most ever will. In fact, job suffered not because he was bad, but becasue he was good (Have you considered My servant job? There is none in all the earth as righteous as he is). And what sort of "Christian" would refuse to pray anyway? such have almost no relationship. Do you decide to not talk to your spouse? See how far your marriag goes. Refuse to talk to your boss ... and see how long you stay employed. So, what makes anyone think they will remain in Christ is they refuse to pray? It is illogical. Was the cup removed from Jesus? No. But did He refuse to Pray? And so what sort of "Christian", who is suppose to be a "christ follower", would refuse to pray? How far have these fallen O Lord! "Did I not tell you, since times of old, that there shall be a GREAT FALLING AWAY. Did I not warn you that men will not heed sound doctrine, but fall unto their own whims and winds of doctrine?" Yes Lord, Your Word is True. Bottom line, too many Christians these days think the Bible is "options to be considered" instead of Commandments to be obeyed' Jesus COMMANDED to watch AND Pray, and the "pray WITHOUT ceasing" ... and men question His command? He Himself says to never stop praying, as who questions it? To even raise the question is to go against God. My prayer life could be much better, but to stop ... is absolutely unthinkable.

I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community. HEAVILY populated. But I think you may be off beat. #1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation. Adam was no "Jew". Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself. In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian. He was no Hebrew. And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of. Jethro was no hebrew. Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did. In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God. That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him. So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses. Even now. Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin. Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born. #2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation. Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God. But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant. Have you not read the Scriptures? a) Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come. he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation". He was WAITING for it. b) Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The Scripture is clear to me. It is about Jesus. It is falling on the New Covenant. The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either. If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic. I think you are confusing two things.

A difficult passage to be sure. I haven't studied it, so, I won't be one of the "overnight sensationalist" who love to respond to things that they have never truly known, or understood themselves. But, here is my initial thoughts when I read it many years ago. There are MORAL laws, which of couse, lead to damnation. Such as lying, stealing, murder, sexual sin, socery (drug use), drunkeness, theft, etc. All who do such things continously, and/or without repentance, will see damnation. As such, "unto death". Then there are also DIETARY and CEREMONIAL law, such as not eating certain foods or worshipping on certain days or feasts. Such things have never sent, and never will send, anyone to Hellfire (thank God!!). Hence, they are not unto death. Then there is the passage about those who do things knowing they are wrong and will be beaten with many lashes, but those who do the same things, not knowing that its wrong, will be beaten with only a few lashes. Again, I could be way off. I'm only sharing my intial thoughts as i recall when I first read that nerely 20 years ago. I've never studied it since. Matthew henry, who is not always right in all things, has this to say: "There is a great distinction in the heinousness and guilt of sin: There is a sin unto death (v. 16), and there is a sin not unto death, v. 17. (1.) There is a sin unto death. All sin, as to the merit and legal sentence of it, is unto death. The wages of sin is death; and cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them, Gal. 3:10. But there is a sin unto death in opposition to such sin as is here said not to be unto death. There is therefore, (2.) A sin not unto death. This surely must include all such sin as by divine or human constitution may consist with life; in the human constitution with temporal or corporal life, in the divine constitution with corporal or with spiritual evangelical life. [1.] There are sins which, by human righteous constitution, are not unto death; as divers pieces of injustice, which may be compensated without the death of the delinquent. In opposition to this there are sins which, by righteous constitution, are to death, or to a legal forfeiture of life; such as we call capital crimes. [2.] Then there are sins which, by divine constitution, are unto death; and that either death corporal or spiritual and evangelical. First, Such as are, or may be, to death corporal. Such may the sins be either of gross hypocrites, as Ananias and Sapphira, or, for aught we know, of sincere Christian brethren, as when the apostle says of the offending members of the church of Corinth, For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep, 1 Co. 11:30. There may be sin unto corporal death among those who may not be condemned with the world. Such sin, I said, is, or may be, to corporal death. The divine penal constitution in the gospel does not positively and peremptorily threaten death to the more visible sins of the members of Christ, but only some gospel-chastisement; for whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth, Heb. 12:6. There is room left for divine wisdom or goodness, or even gospel severity, to determine how far the chastisement or the scourge shall proceed. And we cannot say but that sometimes it may (in terrorem-for warning to others) proceed even to death. Then, Secondly, There are sins which, by divine constitution, are unto death spiritual and evangelical, that is, are inconsistent with spiritual and evangelical life, with spiritual life in the soul and with an evangelical right to life above. Such are total impenitence and unbelief for the present. Final impenitence and unbelief are infallibly to death eternal, as also a blaspheming of the Spirit of God in the testimony that he has given to Christ and his gospel, and a total apostasy from the light and convictive evidence of the truth of the Christian religion. These are sins involving the guilt of everlasting death"

Absolutely not. God is without repentance. He knows the end from the beginning. Sure, we grieve Him to certain measure of "regret" as we understand the word, but not mistakes. For anyone to suggest that its "hard to say" or it depends doen't know God. I'm sorry, but such people really don't spend time with Him. That, to me, is evidence of a lacking prayer life, a lack in studying the Word, and a lack of close relationship to know His character. Absolutely not does god make mistakes. You think that God made a "mistake" just because the world is so jacked up? But I see a god who TOLD US that the world would be just like this, and get worst (birthpains). so to me, it is confirmation that His word is true. You think that God made a mistake with Satan? LOL You think He didn't know that He'd suffer and die long before He even created the angels ... and how many gazzilion years did they exist before our solar system? Did He make a mistake because someone is born cripple? Are we to live in a perfect world with no sin, death, or violence? God never told us that we would in this life. In fact, it is HIM who has taught us the difference between right and wrong, and it is HIS prophecies that told us about these last and evil days. What has God repented of? When has He ever been caught off gaurd? When has He ever said "opps"? When has he ever said, "well, I didn't know you'd ..."? Everything. Everything, is going exactly as He said it would. Just becase He knows the wickedness will come, and said it would, doesnt' mean He is making it turn that way or is surprized by any of it. No. God makes absolutely ZERO mistakes. Woe to my soul if I ever charge God with sin or traits that belong to the flesh. Woe to any man who does. NOTE: I always type "you" but I don't mean you specifically. I type, knowing I have more than one person reading, so my "you" is almost always general, so don't take it personally. I've not read your following comments, or anyone elses other than a first responder, who I've already responded to. A great falling away indeed. Never have I seen such weak Christains. In all my years, I've never seen such callous behavior, distortions or confusion until joining online threads.

Hard to say? OMG I can't believe some of the things I read in these threads.

I'm not part of that group, but I'd say absolutely not. God did not create Satan just o make him sin. That is to accuse God Himself, a God who CANNOT sin ... of sin. And God Himself puts blame on Satan but saying that "you were perfect until inquity was FOUND IN YOU" God didn't say "til I put it in you". He said "til it was FOUND in you" Can God "find" what He did not create or sent? No, He "finds" what was birthed by something else. And it was Satan's pride, since he was full of spender, but forgot that all those precious stones on him were reflecting GODS glory, not his own light. Personally, I daren't charge God with sin. I'm too afriad to flirt with that sort of danger. The fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom indeed. After all, the warning AND the threat clearly says: "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees" Just about every christian and Biblical academic I meet tends to overlook the SCRIBE. The Scribe is the WRITER of falsehood, and according to Jesus, those who TYPE/WRITE falsehoods will share the same damnation or/and judgment as the people who live hypocritical lives. They are one in the same - the ones who talk without writing, and the ones who write without talking. God sees ALL idol words. All of us are SCRIBES. As long as you are typing in these threads, you most certainly ARE a scribe. Better pay attention and be careful how you handle the Word of God. Be very careful. Some of you already should be on your knees begging for forgiveness. Some of you. Seen it with my own eyes. "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees" Be careful how you charge God for sin ... least He judge you harshly for profaining His character. Best you read the longest response from God in Scriptures ... found in the Book of Job. See how God feels about being falsely accused, even by the THOUGHT of men.

Well, it is the CORE belief, yes. But that is not all that is required. Jesus said, "Unless ye believe, ye SHALL die in your sins" The problem is, what many don't understand is that to BELIEVE means to OBEY. After all, what sort of idiot person "believes" that the bridge is out, but continues to drive 80MPH towards it? What sort of fool "believes" that the cool aid will kill them, but willingly drinks it just cause they are a little thirsty? That is not a "believer" ... that is a fool. But WE are not counted among such men. We believe and because we believe, we OBEY. That is what a believer actually is. And it is the CORE of our faith. To believe opens the way for repentance (submission and turning from sin), santification (growing in a sinless life, abandongin the bad things), baptism (of the spirit and of water). Believing only doesn't matter if these other elements are found lacking. Salvation is NOT found in merely believing alone. If it was, Jahovahs Witnesses, Christeldephians, Mormons, Rasta, and a ton of "religious people" would enter Heaven. But it is as Jesus said, MANY will actualy TRY to enter, but will not be able to. Why? because they preferred to take bits and pieces of what consist of Salvation, instead of the whole pack.

Christ the solid rock I stand, ALL other ground is sinking sand. Glad that song now has real meaning to you. I personally prefer exact details, such as WHAT you came from (believer; were taught) to what you now see. Only then do I really know if you have gone from traditions of men, or complete falsehood ... to Truth. But you are certainly unto something. Jesus has always been the CORE and HEART of it all. All the characters and law and books of the Bible point to one - the Messiah. It's ALL about Him ... even as he said it does. he told us that ALL the Law and ALL the prophets point to HIM. It's all about Him ... but Christians (some) are in bad, arrogant habits of thinking that its all about them. Same mistakes that Israel made ... cause many inthe fold have not been studying for themselves, or paying attention. Making the SAME bad mistakes. I see it all the time.

Well, you can't Judge what doesn't have FREE WILL no more than you can judge a dishwasher for doing what it was created for. And angels are also judged, and Scripture even go as far as saying that the SAINTS will Jjudge angels. Amazing how the LESSER one day will rule over the GREATER. Probably because our eyes have never seen God as angels have, but we trust, believe and serve, where THEY kinda have no choice BUT to believe that He is the One and Only God ... because their eyes have seen Him and His good and terrible works.

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do. It's not about US! This thing isn't about "Christians". Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian. There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel. I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean). It is NOT about us. It's ALL about Jesus. Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains". It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD. Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM. We are mearly ... stewards. Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory? Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have. Again, no nit-picking. Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other. To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

Threat? No. Satans future is already written in stone. Not your war. His has no victory. God himself has defeated Satans plan against US. So, don't think of yourself as a threat. In the end, it's not you who will judge him and cast him into the lake of fire. His future si set. YOURS ... however ... IS NOT. So, he is more of a threat to you becasue your actions will determine if you go up, or down, after death. He can go only one direction - down. So, remin in Jesus and He will remain in you. Rejoice not over demons obeying you, but rejoice instead that your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life ... is what Jesus told His Disciples. Meditate on that. Focus on what is important. The next life.

I don't know. It's just a saying. Don't take it to heart. I think most ppl know that it wasn't an apple tree. Cause the Tree was singular and unique. Apple trees are not singular and one of a kind. It was a FRUIT. That is all we need to know.