Atwood

Ezekiel 18: Yet you say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel: Is not my way equal? Are not your ways unequal?

Great subject. I have long been annoyed by the blaming of Moses on this one and neglect what the NT says on Moses, both in Acts and in Hebrews. The fact is that the Bible never criticizes Moses for killing that Egyptian in defense of the Israelite. The story itself (correct me by quotes if I am wrong) doesn't given enough data to blame Moses. Where does the story say "just because"? I think that Stephen's speech in Acts 7 indicates that Moses was a deliverer that the Lord sent who was (like Christ) rejected at his first coming. " 35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made you a ruler and a judge? him God has sent to be both a ruler and a deliverer with the hand of the angel that appeared to him in the bush." At the second coming of Moses, Moses was accepted, as Israel will accept Christ at His second coming. Hebrews 11 also is important on Moses. "27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible." So for me, Moses is innocent until proven guilty. It may have been necessary in delivering the slave from being beaten to kill the Egyptian -- in the course of a severe fight it may have become necessary. I don't see Moses as a hot-head, but as a disappointed would-be Savior of Israel savior in a greatly reduced sense in comparison with Christ).

Where Does the Bible ID "the Day of the Lord"? For $64,000, someone give me a verse in the Bible where "The Day of the Lord" specifically refers to either 1) the Rapture or 2) the Coming of Christ.

It was posted: "Spock, my thought on you partial rapture theory.... its called the day of the Lord or simply the day, not the days. And there arent any scriptures that speak of a third comming of christ." Actually to my knowledge there are zero scriptures calling the Coming of the Lord "The Day of the Lord." It is an important point of interpretation to get rid of the error that "The Day of the Lord" is either the Rapture or 2nd coming of Christ. Do a concordance check to convince yourself that "The Day of the Lord" is a destructive time of judgment.

Shall we sing the old spiritual: "Ride on King Jesus, None can a hinder Thee."

Sorry you are feeling down. It looks like you wish to obey the opening of 1 Corinthians 7, the general command for Christians to marry. I don't know why you have not yet found Mr. Right. So my speculations may be way off base, but since you ask WHY, I will venture forth -- pay it no mind if it is wrong. I prayed for you. 1) The perfect is the enemy of the good. Some may turn down a good spouse because they demand a perfect spouse. 2) I don't know what a relationship means. To me that expression connotes sex, but it does not literally mean that; so how to regard "relationship" is uncertain. A woman is not to covet (nurse an intense desire for) some other woman's man. But if the two have no commitment, that is another matter. If someone is fornicating with another person, one would not want to get involved with such a person romantically. 3) It seems to me that there are some persons who are not attracted to persons who want them, but only to persons who reject them. (Is that insanity?) Does the Bible say anything about that? It says that we are to love God because He first loved us. What else? 4) I suggest claiming James 1 where if anyone lacks wisdom he prays and trusts the Lord for it.

Greetings Spock, I see the green blood is flowing in your brain. You say, "Do you think your response here as well as our Lord's answers to the 7 churches lends "some credibility" to my two rapture theory?" What are there, some 9 raptures in the Bible? But I am at a loss for scripture to establish two raptures for the Church. "Philadelphia church-faithful only believers get a secret before tribulation rapture (Sardis probably too)" I don't know of any scripture to prove how secret or open the Rapture will be. No doubt you have searched the internet for support or refutation of the Partial Rapture theory. It seems to me based on the idea that if one group is promised a Rapture, that ipso facto proves that others are excluded, which seems illogical to me. This is my main concern on the Rapture: We should expect His return for us at any time and live in that light, loving His returning as our blessed hope.

It was posted: "Back a chapter i believe we see the rapture in chapter 7" Where does ekklesia occur in Rev 7? Where is anyone caught up in Rev 7? Where is a meeting in the air with the Lord by saints in Rev 7? Where does harpazō occur in Rev 7?

Well Tigger, if you promised the Lord something and did not follow through on your vow, that is not lying; that is not keeping a vow -- unless when you made the promise you intended not to keep it. Trust in the Lord, O troubled soul Rest in the arms of His care; Whatever thy lot, It mattereth not, For nothing can trouble thee there. Trust in the Lord, O troubled soul; He is the one who doth care. (sing it)

I would be greatly surprised if it were proven that the Russians are not spying on us every which way (and us on them).

BoPeep asks: "Do you think there are many Churches standing like the Church of Philadelphia?" Let's check out the likenesses: 7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things says He Who is holy, He Who is true, He Who has the key of David, He Who opens and none shall shut, and who shuts and none opens: 8 I know your works (behold, I have set before you a door opened, which none can shut), that you have a little power and kept my word and did not deny my name. 9 Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them who say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you kept the word of my endurance, I also will keep you from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them who dwell upon the earth. 11 I come rapidly: hold fast that which you have, that no one take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name. 13 He Who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. SO LET'S SEE HOW THEY STOOD: They have works They have a little power and kept Christ's word (and the word of His endurance) and did not deny His name. They have something, a crown coming. that which you have, that no one take your crown. They have works so I think they were not lazy (big sin). Diligence is the virtue (neither haste nor laziness). I don't see them as Sunday go to meeting Christians. They have a fellowship that furthers the gospel (see the theme of Philippians). Some churches may have a fellowship that is vain. Are not many churches mostly wasting time? IMHO, for every Church where significant sermons are preached, there are at least 1000 dud-preacher-churches where lazy preachers (who hardly prepared) blather away saying nothing significant, boring the congregation out of its gourd or scratching itching ears. They have a little power. How many have even a little? This reminds one of faith the size of a mustard seed. They actually win some souls and edify some saints. Many have a form of the gospel but deny its power, or pervert the true power of the gospel in transforming persons into sensational nonsense, pew-hopping madmen playing church with magician tricks. and kept Christ's word (and the word of His endurance) For every church where they actually believe Christ's word, there must be at least 1000 where the fact that the Word is true, is a matter of debate or disregard. and did not deny His name. Denial of the nature of Christ is quite common. It can be practically against the law to pray in Christ's name. There must be many churches where Christ is another religious teacher alongside others. They have something, a crown coming. that which you have, that no one take your victor's wreath/crown. I suppose there must be few churches around where there are many soul-winners eligible for the soul-winners crown. Typically speaking, it seems to me that: right now we have at least two Church/Christendom eras overlapping (and probably four); that is, movements that started sequentially but overlap before they end: Thyatira being the Papist, Sardis being the Reformation, Philadelphia being the great missionary movement, and Laodicea being the modern apostate pseudo-church of the unregenerate. There still are Philadelphia missionary/evangelizing churches where real Bible teaching occurs. And I expect that movement to continue until the Rapture (this Church is promised not to go through the tribulation), while Laodicea goes into the tribulation.

Donibm: These are good points you made. Yes, I think we could well ask about both a local church and about ourselves, which of the 7 church-types are you? We would like to be either Smyrna or Philadelphia, since they get no rebuke -- though we may be too chicken to really want to be Smyrna! Because of the correspondence between these 7 churches and the history of Christendom, I am inclined to think that the 7 churches are not only literal city-churches, but also typical of 7 movements in "Church History."

The Millennium is marked out by four events two before and two after: 1) The saved (who already died) are raised at its start. 2) The damned are raised at its end. 3) Satan is bound at its start. 4) Satan is loosed at its end. I think that to sustain an argument that the mill is figurative one has to affirm that satan is bound today and that the first resurrection is "spiritual" in Rev. 20. But today satan goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour; he is not bound today. Resurrection is always resurrection of a body; spirits are neither buried nor raised. To be sure, Christians may be said to be resurrected now, but this does not refer to their spirits; this refers to their union with Christ in His death, physical body resurrection, and ascension. We may say that in our Head (the Head of the Body of Christ to which we belong), we have died with Him, been raised with Him, and seated with Him in glory already.

Welcome to the Forums. I am sure you will get responses to your query which you can discuss in other subforums after you make five worthy posts.

Which is the more dangerous heresy, which is the worst enemy of Christ? 1) Those who deny it all and aggressively attack or 2) those who pretend to be Christians, sowing serious errors, pretending to be Christians? 1) On the one hand there have arisen aggressive atheists who are not content with their atheism but wish to attack Christianity and the Bible vigorously. These are likely to deny even that Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. 2) On the other hand there are ever insidious "Yea,-hath-God-said-ers," who pose as Christians while denying the most basic truths. They have wormed there way into seminaries that once taught the truth and into pulpits spreading poisonous lies. For example, one will find those who claim that the Bible is generally true, yet it errs in history and science. This strategy undermines that basic truth that the Bible is God's word. For God does not lie and knows all. And there are those who dismiss the Lord Jesus as a good teacher, but would claim to be Christian. And while a debate ensures, one is likely to find supposedly good Christians jumping in and attacking the orthodox debaters as being unloving or unaccepting of fellow Christians, brothers-in-the-Lord who just disagree on something. These could be called "Jehoshaphat-ers." "But shun profane babblings: for they will proceed further in ungodliness, and their word will eat as does a gangrene: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; men who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and overthrow the faith of some. Howbeit the firm foundation of God stands, …." Which is the more dangerous: 1) or 2) ? For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers … whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not for filthy lucre’s sake. One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, …."

Er, what is a "flash mob"???

It was posted, "I continue to pray for this country, but I am concerned that things are beginning to get out of control." Beginning? I mark the "out of control" with Rowe v Wade. What I think happened is that the satanic forces grabbed ahold of the civil rights movement to piggy-back on it. The Afro-americans were greatly oppressed in the USA and rightly given civil rights by around 1970, but other things were piggy-backed on, like women's rights to act like men. Men don't get pregnant, so there is no limit on what women may do to avoid pregnancy. Now we are seeing the latest piggy-back whereby our country is becoming another Sodom. Now as to the country, the governments that be are ordained of God, even if run by a monster like Nero. Prayer is indeed called for. I suspect that Christians have been very negligent at prayer for our government. We are salt and light, but also strangers and pilgrims.

It was posted: "Yes for a long time i have thought that "all flesh" in Genesis meant "all flesh" ." Genesis 6:19-20: Note that is doesn't just say "all flesh" but "of all flesh." I believe that verse 20 limits the "of all flesh" to 3 types of flesh animals: 1) birds, 2) cattle, 3) things that creep on the ground -- not creep through the sea. "And of every living thing OF all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of the birds after their kind, and of the cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. BTW, I think you will find that in some contexts, "all flesh" is a figure of speech for "all men."

I believe that in the Bible a year is 360 days. As to what animals were in the ark, methinks it was limited to 3 types of animals: "Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing OF THE EARTH after his kind, two of every sort shall come to you to keep them alive." (Genesis 6)

Prair, I would keep on quoting through the last verse in chapter 10 " But we are not of them who shrink back to perdition; but of them that have faith to the saving of the soul."

If someone says, "A Christian can lose his salvation," such a someone doesn't even mean the same thing by "salvation" that I do. When I speak of salvation, I speak of receiving a permanent transformation from the Lord from sinner to Child of God which includes eternal life. How can someone trust Christ as his Savior and not trust Christ to save him? The issue is not to trust Christ to give one the possibility of being saved, but to trust Him to do it. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and You SHALL BE saved!

Making Someone More Moral. On a morality scale of 0-10, what would be the morality goal? Pardon me for wanting to laugh. Of course there is such a thing as the spiritual gift of encouragement. And there is this profound intercessory prayer in Ephesians 3.

Chris, you have brought up one of my pet peeves. I regularly go to the restroom before services at my local church and get a piece of toilet paper to stick in my ears during the music. Should we say that the majority of popular musicians today are idiots who have no regard to frying their ears? The Christian's body is supposed to be a Temple of the Holy Spirit.

It was posted: "I've always wondered what they meant by the word 'tribes'." That is a strange wonder, since the 12 tribes are listed by name and are traced to the offspring of Jacob. It was posted: "There is something I'm a bit confused with though. These 144,000 Jews, are these Jews angels from heaven sent from heaven, or are they here now raising families in Israel like regular people? When you say..."There will be 12 tribes of Israel among the Jews who will be saved". What do you mean when you say "who will be saved"?" What confuses me is from where these questions come? Where does the idea of angels from Heaven come from on the 144,000? I am unaware of any issue of raising families in the text. Salvation? For Israel that would mean receiving all the things God has promised them as listed in the New Covenant (Jeremiah 33). There is a national salvation for Israel prophesied at Christ's return to take over earth. Salvation means first a transformation from sinner to child of God, then eternal life; for Israel also the Davidic Covenant. See Romans 9-11, Joel 2, Zechariah 13-14, and Ezekiel 37.

You list 12 tribes. The 144,000 are found in Rev 7 and 14. Do you see any discrepancy between you list and that of Revelation? Look closely.