Esther4:14

That is a very bold statement to make. In my opinion, what you are doing is boasting that you are able rightly dividing the Word of God, which demonstrates that you have a high opinion of your own ability. "We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise" (2 Corinthians 10:12). " Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth; an outsider, and not your own lips," (Proverbs 27:2). So are you really rightly dividing the Word of God, or are you boasting?

These are very interesting observations especially in regard to the first trumpet. I had not considered this.

Really? Hmm, I am kind of thinking that He didn't have people telling different prophecies. He didn't have Paul telling people about different trumpets especially when Paul description of a trumpets appears vague without John's revelation. Oh Marv, I am just at a loss of words. Of course the probability that last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is represented in the 7th trumpet of Revelation is greater than the suggestion that Paul and John are going rogue with their own visions of prophecy because we are body of Christ. The hand does not work without the arm and the description of the trumpet given by Paul does not work without the arm of the revelation of John. This is what I call a hog pog because it is discrediting a logical conclusion and there is no real argument supporting this conclusion. Obviously, there is judgement mentioned in the book of Revelation during this time, but the saints are told to persevere, not to experience this judgement. So, there is a distinction between the wheat and tares. The trumpets of Revelation are Basically, the battle of Jericho is what I believe the trumpets represent. When the seventh trumpet sounds, the meek will inherit the earth. It is the same effortless process of God's people in overcoming the enemy without the requirement of weapon or force on the part of the believer. We will patiently wait while He delivers us from our enemies. Therefore, all three together create a clear picture of what is likely to occur without the necessity of scripting the gap created without these connections from my own imagination.

Where are you getting this from scripture. There are seven trumpets according to Revelation. There are not millions upon millions of trumpet calls unless you make the assumption that Paul and John are talking about different things.

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 The seventh trumpet will be the end. But, prophecy is the same problem that I have understanding the parable of the sower (Matthew 13). It is something very plain written in a way that is difficult to understand. I bet that we all sound very much like the disciples would have sounded if they had tried to understand that parable without the interpretation. But, the point from this parable is that prophecy is simple in manifestation and it is difficult to understand this simplicity because it is supposed to be. It has been hidden. So, this is incomplete. I am aware of this. Anyways, When Revelation 11:15-19 talks about the seventh trumpet, it says, " The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophetsand your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.” But, it won't be time for any of this according to the Revelation of John until chapter 20. Revelation 11:19 says that when the temple in the Heavens is opened at this point there will be flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake. Then, we are shown where 1 Thessalonians 5:2 more than likely came from in Revelation 16:5 Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” Revelation 16:5 This is possibly because Paul knew the testimony of John according to 2 Corinthians 12:2, "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows." It is likely he had a greater understanding of the timing of the vision when he was parroting the revelation of John. It is likely that more of what Paul had to say about the last days came from an understanding and awareness of this vision as well. Anyways, and after he says this in Revelation 16:5, the passage about flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake is repeated (Revelation 16:18). Then, the angel shows John how Babylon is fallen in chapters 17-19. Finally we see the dead in Christ rise first to reign with Him for a thousand years, with those who are alive who did not take the mark of the beast (1 Corinthians 15:51-52; Revelation 20:4), and so forth till the New Jerusalem is revealed. Therefore, the final trumpet Paul refers to comes at the end, which is identified in two places according to the vision given to John, which was given to him the way it was for a reason. The complexity of the Revelation is a test in and of itself of the faith and perseverance of the saints.

When the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, this is what allowed the church to grow. We would have no church if the Jews were allowed to continue having the authority to persecute Christians for blasphemy. It was in the best interest of the church for the temple to be destroyed. When Israel restores this privilege, with the help of the church, they will go right back to persecuting and trying to get rid of the church of Christ once they are given reason to believe that Israel has been restored without accepting Christ as their Messiah. It is well documented by many sources what the Talmud teaches about Christ that is considered a Holy book in Judaism. Then, the witnesses will more than likely be sent to rebuke them for their arrogance. They will be killed in the city where our Lord was killed (Revelation 11:8) because they will not hear their call to repent but will continue to tell people that there will be peace and safety because they are "God's Chosen People," then destruction will come upon them. More than likely, the witnesses are going to come to Israel the same way the prophets did before they were taken into captivity for their disobedience. Remember Israel was not scattered for their righteousness, but because of their disobedience, and there is no need to fear little Hitler's being raised up when we are busy actively raising up the disobedient kings of Israel. " He followed completely the ways of Jeroboam son of Nebat, committing the same sin Jeroboam had caused Israel to commit, so that they aroused the anger of the LORD, the God of Israel, by their worthless idols," (1 Kings 16:26). It is amazing that we all so easily forget that the Bible tells us that the whole experience of the Jews "persecution," was the direct result of disobedience. They are not victims. They could easily repent at any time and the curse that is upon them would be removed. I am also of the opinion that Russia was extremely more corrupt during the 2nd Reich.

I would like to add 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 if I may to the consideration of these two verses. " Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,”destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." So, I am just throwing this out there to consider, but what this appears to say is that patience of the saints could be equated to the waiting for the day of the Lord to come upon the ones who will take the mark because the mark will demonstrate in some way a sense of peace and safety. So, while they are saying peace and safety, the saints are waiting patiently for the Lord to come as a thief in the night when His wrath will be poured out on them and they will not escape. But, His wrath on those who take the mark will be something of a deliverance for the ones who have survived this time and remain. Suggesting that preparing to perseverance through this trial when the mark is required will be the demonstration of His grace, which is a very unusual way of perceiving the churches place during the fulfillment of prophecy from what I have seen so far because we are frequently distracted by whether or not there will or won't be a rapture. I believe our discussion is hindered to some degree on the presence of the church during the final week because of this. However, I am becoming more and more confident that grace is what the argument opposing pre-tribulation rapture is needing or what who do not agree with the theory are needing because it will be here any day. Anyways, this is a new consideration that I wanted to include in the hope that it would be encouraging.

So then how do you distinguish between John the Baptist fulfilling the call of Elijah (Matthew 17:12), and the suggestion of a literal Elijah coming the next time when this is exactly the same line of thinking that caused the Pharisees to deceive themselves that the prophecy wasn't being fulfilled by a man crying out in the wilderness. The transfiguration does not suggest that Moses is the second party because there is no indication within this event to connect the two. This is assumption. More than likely, I believe the two witnesses will be empowered to defend themselves in the face of opposition like Elijah was able to do before Ahab (1 Kings 18). I just don't see them coming back as super heroes unless there was a way to prove that there was no one left righteous. But, the saints are called to persevere (Revelation 14:12). And the days are shortened for the sake of the elect (Matthew 24:22), suggesting that will be someone capable of pleasing Him to receive the same anointing as Elijah the way Elisha and John the Baptist both did. The only way I would believe that it were literally Elijah come again is if there were a way to prove there would be no one righteous to answer the call of Elijah in those days.

Yes, I believe that a logical scriptural issue was the basis of my argument.

It is pure assumption. There is no way to prove such a theory from the Bible because there is no verse to support it. It is pure assumption that John the Baptist was not a literal coming of Elijah, but the future Elijah will be literal, or that Moses is the second witness. More than likely, because the second witness is not identified, both witnesses are representative of one Elijah, and I am assuming He does not plan to clone Him to fulfill this prophecy. Therefore, this is saying that the anointing is going to be passed on to two witnesses like it was passed on to Elisha and demonstrated in the ministry of John the Baptist. I mean who wouldn't love to have this opportunity. It was what Elisha specifically asked for. He wanted the same anointing as Elijah (2 Kings 2:9). I would ask for it too, and I have... Because it would be a bigger rush than bungie jumping. Picture it, having Elijah powers and demonstrating the justice of the Lord right and left without people whining or jumping in with their accusations about this or that. Just be like, Bam!! Yes, He did anoint me. And just really get something done without all the whining all the time. I'm just throwing that out there. I'd love it. I can't imagine I am the only one who will ever feel this way, and someday someone will see the chariot taken up to Heaven (2 Kings 2:11). In fact, I do plan to write something someday in order to inspire someone to do this in the future. I kind of look at it like David wanting to build the temple, but only getting materials ready. Either way, I don't think Elijah is a literal statement at all because otherwise a second person would be identified somewhere.

I don't believe that not being raptured before the final week means that I will be under wrath. If I were under wrath, I would be blinded and unable to see the implementation of the mark in order to refuse it. To refuse the mark is to be called by His grace. Revelation says that the saints are called to persevere when the mark takes effect (Revelation 14:12). Revelation is not a hogpog that we make it, in particular, those who believe in pretrib rapture make prophecy a total hog pog of rapture and separate address of Israel and seals happening with earthquakes and Jesus comes to rapture the church then he comes back to reign the Jews for a thousand years because Ezekiel says this, and Isaiah says this, and Paul says this, and John says this and each are almost saying different things that are all going to happen at the same time, which I think makes people want to be raptured. And pretribbers almost always explain prophecy in aggressive tones. You don't have the same aggressive tone. But, most of them get these aggressive tones and start telling people they are ridiculous and flinging insults. I bet if we took a survey, you would find more insults coming from pretibbers than posttribbers. Maybe, it is because a lack of understanding of basic principles is making it difficult to progress and understand prophecy. Prophecy is a clean progression of events ending the fallen state of the world in a way other than a flood (Genesis 9:12). Pre tribulation is a somewhat arrogant philosophy, in my opinion as well, which may be another reason pritribbers have bad attitudes. In the Bible, Enoch and Elijah were raptured. Moses wasn't raptured. The other prophets weren't raptured. The apostles weren't raptured. To me, this is reason enough to question rapture theory. You know I have never climbed a mountain and spoken to God. Moses did this, and he was still not allowed into the promised land because of a moment of anger. It would see logical, learning the numerous lessons on humility in the New Testament, that I should be slow to consider myself worthy of this same privelage. Yet, this group with bad attitudes thinks they are all automatically gonna be raptured. If I did believe in rapture theory, it would make more sense to exhibit a humility that recognizes that even Holy men faced and experienced death. Maybe, if I saw people exhibiting more humility explaining the tenets of pretrib rapture theory, I would be more inclined to reconsider. The way I see it. They march around like spoiled brats with poor manners. I can't see a rapture theory being possible solely based on the behavior of those who preach this opinion. Nevertheless, I don't believe I will experience wrath if I were to be alive during the final week. His words will remain true in this time. I will still be able to ask for anything in His name. I won't experience the effects of the boils or any of the other things that happen to ones under wrath. I think what I will experience during this time will be not so much different than the early church experienced. "When the LORD takes pleasure in anyone's way, he causes their enemies to make peace with them." (Proverbs 16:7). So, I appreciate your recognition of the absence of wrath, but I don't believe the church will be under wrath as someone who does not believe in a pretribulation rapture.

Now, all you need is a leather jacket and your posse to jump the fence and break out in song. " RIFF: (Spoken) Hey. Cool. Easy. Sweet. Meet Tony and me at ten. And walk tall! A-RAB: We always walk tall! BABY JOHN: We're Jets! ACTION: The greatest! ACTION and BABY JOHN (Sing) When you're a Jet, You're the top cat in town, You're the gold medal kid With the heavyweight crown! A-RAB, ACTION, BIG DEAL When you're a Jet, You're the swingin'est thing: Little boy, you're a man; Little man, you're a king!" (West Side Story) That's not what she said anyway. She wasn't saying salvation was at stake. She was saying that a careless approach to prophecy would put you at risk of being caught in a snare. It wasn't about losing salvation, which still doesn't necessitate the school yard call out. Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Going into captivity does not mean you lose salvation. It means that you go into captivity because you have been caught in a snare. It doesn't mean you aren't saved. You could be saved, in a snare, and captivity probably gonna motivate you to repent pretty quickly. I would say the real snare here doesn't have anything to do with prophecy discussion, but rests in the manifestation of the understanding of basic doctrines. If you need to be taught basic precepts of love, and humility again and again (Hebrews 5:12), you may find yourself caught in a snare or led into captivity. Still, not a salvation issue. Basically, it goes like this. If you can't understand basic precepts of love and humility. You should not discuss prophecy, and your years as a self proclaimed Berean, are really poorly reflected in your response. " Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth; an outsider, and not your own lips," (Proverbs 27:2). " We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise" ( 2 Corinthians 10:12). It really gets tiring reiterating this over and over again. I am concerned for what it is like at your churches. Don't people teach you to love others when you go to church. These are the most basic and fundamental precepts. " If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:2).

This is exactly what I understood the reference to mean as well. So, we be a cloud of three witnesses.

lol x10 Sister, check it... You don't study like a Berean because they called me last night and told how they study. And you Sister, don't study the way they told me they study. You feel me... They said I was studying the right way. Oh my gosh, I just can't stand how funny that is. I will never forget this one. It will continue to entertain me for years to come. How is this even a biblically sound response. " Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves." (Philippians 2:3). I don't know, I don't have the Bereans on speed dial, but I am pretty sure this response sound like boasting.

I've read some of Jasher before. I did find it edified my understanding of scripture in two ways. The first way was a better understanding of the genealogies in the early chapters of Genesis. It is one thing to know that Noah was really old. It was another to realize that Noah was alive when Abraham was alive as well. I double checked this with the genealogies in scripture and it is possible that Noah would have been able to converse with Abraham, which would answer another important question I had about scripture which was, "where did Abraham get the idea to build a altar? "(Genesis 12:7). When there is a connection and potential for relationship with Noah, who also built an altar (Genesis 8:20), there is a better understanding of where Abraham got the idea to build an altar. There still remains a mystery in my understanding of these early altars. I do believe they could go back to when humanity realized the weight of the fall, and they call out in their need of Him for the first time. " Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to call on the name of the LORD. (Genesis 4:26). Whether the altar goes back to the earliest effort of humanity to repent to the Lord of their fallen state; or, whether this was something given to Cain and Abel (Genesis 4:4) in the form of a command that would be pleasing to Him because of their fallen state. I still have many questions about these early altars. However, it is possible for me to see a meaning relating to the altars that Abraham built going back to his understanding of an altar that Noah built who would have had awareness of some of the earliest things that humanity has endured because of the fall. In conclusion, what I learned from the book of Jasher is something that is possible to learn from the Bible alone. On the other hand, the early writings of Genesis can be an overwhelming study, in my opinion. Therefore, I found the book of Jasher beneficial and edifying to my study of scripture in this way.

I think it is possible when He says He will send Elijah, He is referring to Elijah in place of the priesthood. So, for example, Jesus says that Elijah did come (Matthew 17:12), which is spoken of in Malachi 3:1. 1 Peter 2:9 also refers to the believers in Christ as, "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." Therefore, it is possible that the concept of saying that Elijah will come is the same as saying the Levitcal priesthood will be rebuked by the priests of Elijah, so to speak. Clearly, Elijah sets a high bar in his obedience to the Lord demonstrated in 1 Kings 17 and 18 to follow, in contrast to the rebuke the Levitical priesthood receives in Malachi. But, the priests were warned that they would receive a curse if they did not repent. “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me," (Malachi 2:2). "Because of you I will rebuke your descendants; I will smear on your faces the dung from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it. And you will know that I have sent you this warning so that my covenant with Levi may continue,” says the Lord Almighty. “My covenant was with him, a covenant of life and peace, and I gave them to him; this called for reverence and he revered me and stood in awe of my name. True instruction was in his mouth and nothing false was found on his lips. He walked with me in peace and uprightness, and turned many from sin.“For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth. But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi,”says the Lord Almighty. “So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law.” I think the part that I have emphasized is the description of Elijah that will come that is referenced here and the reason why He will send Elijah instead. So, Elijah will serve in the place of the priests who despised the covenant that was made with them. Thank you for such a thought provoking question. This is my first time attempting to address this subject so none of my considerations are set in stone at this point either.

It is impossible that the final week concerns Christ even though there may seem to be a connection. Daniel 9:26 says there are 62 weeks until the Messiah is cut off and have nothing and the temple will be destroyed. Then, it says there will be war and desolation's until the final week suggesting that there is no way to know how long is between the time the Messiah is cut off and the final week. Or, in other words, no one knows the day or hour the final week will begin according to Daniel 9:26-27. Therefore, no one know when the Son of Man will come either (Matthew 24:36). So, whenever the final week begins, the covenant may exist for the full seven years, but it will be meaningless to one who made it. The one who confirmed did not follow through. It is broken because he didn't keep his word not because the decree is stopped or reversed. It will be because, he becomes reckless in his pride, he will declare himself as God by stepping outside of it. Now, we could being seeing this represented in our electoral process right now. My guess is the week will be the time frame of a term for someone who is elected. Therefore, I do think it is possible that the signs and wonders pertain in some way to a campaign. Remember "change we need" kept Obama in office for 8 years. I think we can sometimes forget or take for granted how miraculous our technologies are today. But, a sign or wonder could easily be in the form of a gadget or app. There was even a ted talk I watched about different uses for silk. Silk is strong and compatible with the body. It can dissolve without having to be removed for a new wave of suturing or implanting devices that can be powered by the body so the device never needs to be removed like pacemakers still do need to be removed every few years to replace a battery. What other functions could these devices replace outside of the miracle of maintaining sinus rhythm of pacemakers today. There is even developed of software that will allow you to wear a headset and operate your computer with your mind. The stuff really exists and there are people on YouTube doing tutorials with this. So, I don't personally believe this direction will change or that we will revert to a showdown like Moses have with the Egyptians magicians. Nevertheless, thus week has not taken place yet.

Well the process would not necessarily need to be the covenant. The covenant would be the promise to continue the process. I think this is demonstrated in the American campaign for the constitution. That is what everyone talks about when they run for office. Saying that they will uphold the constitution is how candidates get support from the Christian community because we are led to believe that the constitution was based on Christian principles. Now if I were writing a constitution, I would specifically say something beyond freedom of religion. Something that would include the name of Jesus, like that we have freedom to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ without the interference or judgement of church or government. This way citizens can become the most productive they can be in service. So, in my opinion, the present constitution would not be a stretch for the Antichrist considering it mentions nothing about Christ to confirm and it is the Christian concept of freedom that hinders the oppression of the Devil right now. Christianity is what is preventing the mark right now so to speak. Basically, in order for the prophecy to work, the Devil needs a way to get support from the church, and the constitution is the way to accomplish this. So, this is an example. The covenant would be to confirm the constitution for seven in something of a international government, which I do believe would be initiated by Israel, which is what the Zionist teaching is about. To get Christians ready to willingly accept a Jewish state. There is no way it will be Islam because Islam doesn't have the diverse appeal the way the western world does. The prophecy suggests more in the way of support of the Antichrist rather than domination. For example, when it talks about mystery Babylon makes the nations drunk and rich (Revelation 18:3). I don't see Islam making the nations rich or drunk, but the Jewish community is widely recognized for their lending that could practically be a science at this point. It is a somewhat benign piece of history even when we learn that the Jews were lending in England after they were allowed to return during the Renaissance. You know our history book will say that they became money lenders because the tradesmen didn't want them to join their guilds. We think ah, the English were antisemitic then and think nothing of what this means leading to the fulfillment of prophecy regarding mystery Babylon. But, that's not the only example I have of a confirmed covenant. Karl Marx is noted for many books besides the communist manifesto. He also wrote a book called "On the Jewish Question". He was a Jew, but apparently he feels Judaism should go in a new direction. So, I do think the antichrist could be someone like Marx who leads the world from Israel and does start mosaic temple laws, or confirms them, because the Mosaic temple regulations already exist. They aren't new. Then, he could dispose of them thinking he is like a God. It would be like when King Uzziah went to go light the incense in the temple. This brought the end of His reign as King of Judah (2 Chronicles 26:19). More than likely, I think it will be a combination of the two, because even if you have an event like that happen, you have to think of the whole picture. There is deception, itching ears, apostacy. Someone says something people want to hear, not something they are forced to hear. I do think what we are seeing in America is the best present comparison because every 4 years, we get excited again. I think when the AC does come, it will have similar enthusiasm to our election process, which would be another example of confirming a covenant or making a promise to keep a sort of electoral process so people are fairly represented, and then this could be revoked. I guess that is even another example. So, those are my scenarios that I have been working on since understanding what LD has presented for discussion. I hope it makes sense. I wrote it on my tablet. I imagined it being shorter. I think I should have got up and gone to a keyboard. Take care.

There is a great book on the subject of the kingdom of god you can find here. http://ebooks.faithwriters.com/ebook-details.php?id=653 It is so good and written by an aspiring Christian writer so it is a great way to support Christian writers. Faithwriters.com is a great site in general for Christians. There is some real good stuff that the mainstream market is seriously missing out on.

No, he is saying that the covenant already exists and the AC will confirm it, or say he will adhere to a preexisting precept, and he will go back on his word to maintain this in the middle of the week. It is a very insightful observation I hadn't noticed before. I agree with him and have my own initial observations regarding this insight. Inevitably, it makes more sense because it is an easier way for the AC to get approval by confirming someing that has approval already. It is like trying to ride on the coat tails of the rather than inventing a new concept that requires approval. As a rule people fear change. It is much easier to try to deceive someone using what they are comfortable with rather than expecting them to change. I hope that makes some sense.

Hi CJAS, I can relate to what you are going through to a certain extent. I have had no contact with my family now for many years because they are unhealthy people. I moved away from the city I grew up in years ago, but my friends will tell me that my family still tries to contact them to give me messages to call them. They do this to try to make me feel guilty and I did feel guilty at first. It was really hard to separate myself because I wanted to obey Christ and forgive and love people and do all the things that He wanted me to do. But, it wasn't until years after that I could see the disobedience in the obedience of this time of my life, if that makes sense. It wasn't after many years of maintaining my discipline to study the Bible, and spending time with believers, that Mark 10:29-31 even became an encouragement to me. " “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.” You know, this is a choice some of us have had to make and I do not think that this means that we are breaking the commandment to honor our father or mother if honoring our father or mother causes us to break our commandment to follow Christ. But, this is something that takes discernment and time to understand in order to be of a clear conscious about it, which we are to do as Christians (1 Peter 3:16). I also think it is totally normal to be upset and feel many of the same feelings that you did as a child after you had desired to restore your relationship, and your mother betrayed this offer of reconciliation with her current behavior. The Bible does say to honor our parents, which means that being a parent is an honor, and it is disappointing when people neglect to show gratitude for this honor by their behavior to their children.

I agree with everything except the last part. I think people continue defending their point to the death because they lack the humility to step away, not because of their capacity to defend their position. At a certain point you just have to let them have their last word prize otherwise they will never stop harassing you. But, for me, even when I feel I could continue, I will often stop when things are clearly unfruitful and manipulated by motives that do not pertain to the discussion. So, I guess I don't agree that some discussion continue because the party actually has the ability to defend their position. I think they think having the last word is like scoring a point in the eyes of the audience.

The first time reading through the Bible can be daunting. There just seems to be pressure to do it a certain way coming from no one in particular, but it still seems to be there. But, in the long run, it will be the best thing you ever do for your life. Better than any degree one could get, better than any vacation you could take. There is nothing that will give you more rewards in your life than completing the Bible from start to finish. When I first started reading the Bible I was 18 years old. It was the year 2000. I had kind of been a rebellious teenager because I grew up in a abusive household. I wore jeans and t-shirts to a church with a membership count of like 8, and they were all in their 80's. They had learned to sing in glee clubs. They wore clothes from years ago that still looked like they were brand new. I think one of the ladies had a great granddaughter older than me. There were not a lot of people in my generation attending church at the time and there still aren't. Even fewer maybe who have read the Bible. But, they were the most loving bunch of ladies that you would ever meet in your life. And, so they were my motivation to do something no matter how out of place I felt and even when I knew I was the only one who would try doing this, their love. I tried reading through the old testament first like three times and would just end up getting very bored and wondering how this anything to do with me. Then, because I wanted to be friends with this group of older ladies (they were awesome!) I decided I couldn't give up and maybe it would be okay to start in the New Testament instead of the old. I just took the risk, you know. I started in Matthew, read all the way through Revelation. Then, somehow, the Old Testament wasn't so bad after that. I read through the Old Testament till I got to the book of Ecclesiastes and then, the light bulb went off. I just couldn't believe that someone in the Bible actually understood the way I felt. I worked night shifts in an Alzheimer's care home at the time, and I was floating on air all night. It may sound very ridiculous if I were to say I will remember that day for the rest of my life. So, my advice is the first time you read through the Bible, try not to give yourself too many rules or expectations. Just set some goals for yourself, like for example, "I will finish reading the Bible even if I skip over the genealogies because they put me to sleep." I have read through the Bible many times. There isn't a whole lot to glean from them other then when Enoch is taken up (Genesis 5:24). So, don't feel bad if you just want to scan those real quick the first time. In conclusion, reading the Bible is like climbing up to the top of roller coaster. You might be sitting there wondering when this will be fun from time to time. But, once you get to the top and are on your way down, it doesn't stop being awesome! Good luck.

Kan, if I could "like" what you said twice I would. What a incredibly sensitive and Biblical response.

One day I may decide to write a brief testimony of my background. Right now, it is too painful for me still but I had no idea what two house theology was before coming here so no I do not think along these lines, and I have a fairly simple testimony of a girl with a Bible from a fairly small town. In other ways, it is very complex how His word has preserved my life. I also clearly stated my position in the post I have already made. I also had no idea what oneness theology was before now either, and judging by your response and avoidance of the clear question I bolded relating to the thread, I will proceed to ignore further conversation with you again. It is difficult to have a conversation with someone who manipulates what you say to such a degree according to her file cabinet of false teachings. It is truly as though you have spent more time studying all the little nuances of false teachings that ever existed than a basic study and dependence on scripture. I have never meet someone who could do such things and just be ready and raring to accuse someone whenever possible. In my church I went when I got saved, one of the ladies would only tell me things like get your heart right with Jesus and stay in the word. It just was never necessary to train to go to the church Jeopardy. "I'll take false teaching for five hundred". "Alright, name the false teaching originating in England about the lost tribes of Israel.". (Sound of buzzer). (side note: I realized now that I have gotten the responses confused and this wasn't originally addressed to me, but I would still like to say it anyway.)