Hidden In Him

Jayne did a good job with the context. About the word "hate," a slightly better translation for the Greek word used here would be "despise," in the sense of having contempt for something or someone. It is used in the LXX (the Greek Old Testament) in verses like Deuteronomy 21:15-16, where it talks about a man having two wives, and being loving towards one but despising (i.e. having contempt for) the other. What Jesus was saying was that this will be the natural reaction of anyone who loves the Lord yet has family members who reject Him and try to tell them to turn from Him. It causes a natural disdain in the believer, and causes them to have contempt for them because their family is trying to force them to give up the God they love. He was teaching here that these situations may be unavoidable, so to be prepared to have to endure such things when they happen.

Oops! LoL. I was checking back to see if you responded, and realized I highlighted the wrong word in translation. I has been corrected now, and reads: The second usage of κατέχον I translate as "holding back." Sorry if I confused you, brother.

The general teaching here, Kay, was to subject yourself humbly under the rule of those in authority (Romans 13:1), and lead what Paul taught elsewhere was a "quiet life," where you were not a nuisance to rulers but did your best to instead be a blessing to the cities and nations you were citizens of. The idea was not that they would be perfect in their judgments, but simply that they were not generally a terror to those who did things like praying for the peace and well-being of their nations (1 Timothy 2:1-4), but would be far more likely to be to those who demonstrated in the streets and threatened to rebel, as the Jews were doing against Rome, which would lead to their eventually being conquered and completely subjugated not many years later. This is essentially the same teaching Jesus was giving when he taught that if a Roman soldier commanded a Jew to walk a mile and carry has equipment by force, a disciple of Jesus should walk with him an additional mile as well, as a way of overcoming evil with good. So the teaching was not necessarily to expect the government to always be good and fair to you, but simply to understand that you would be much more agreeable to them if you were a blessing to their rule rather than a public nuisance and a potential threat to stability. As for your question about walking free of fear completely, I think this is only possible by walking ever closer to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, since He has not given us a spirit of fear, but One of love, power, and a sound mind.

Guys, I hate to sound contrarian here; there are certainly a number of similarities. But it's actually a reference to a city, not a nation. That city is Rome, which will become the head of denominational Christianity during the end-times, and return to killing the saints and prophets just as she did during the inquisition. The oath Jesuits take still contains wording to the effect that, if called upon, they must be willing and able to kill those who preach "heresy." I do believe America will soon turn in a darker direction spiritually. But I don't think America is Mystery Babylon.

Greetings, Eslyn. Yes, of course this includes people who have been baptized. Baptism is merely an outward ceremony symbolizing a deeper truth; that we are to die to the old man and be raised up in newness of life in the new, through the Holy Spirit (preferable the baptism in the Holy Spirit). But there are many who have observed the outward ceremony who did not live out what it was meant to symbolize, whereas there are some who are living out the spiritual truth in their lives without having actually gone through the ceremony yet. So the more important question is: While it is never too late, are you ready to die to your old life and put on the new?

I'm curious, Tyler. What makes you believe you have received it?

Doki oki. Will do.

You sound like you know something I don't... but if you are just being curious, I suppose he is reading these posts and can respond.

Neighbor, I've noticed you tend to villainize anyone who criticizes "your Lord's local bodies." You do know we are a part of His body as well, yes? Or do you not recognize us as part of the body of Christ?

This I fully agree with, and also that preaching and teaching is often sorely lacking. But it's not just on the teacher end of things. They take little interest. So I think the argument is over how to get them to listen more. Well my position here is that the great revivals of history were all prayed for, so I think the responsibility lies predominantly with us rather than God. If you take the position that God is in charge of when we will have revival yet we rarely ever see any, it sort of makes Him out as if He isn't really concerned. But I think He is actually very deeply desirous of it .It is we who are the lackadaisical ones.

I agree here. They appear to make very little difference between themselves and the world, and in mimicking the world they present to kids things which the world can do better. But now the problem for me is also that they need to present a form of Christianity that is more real; I believe the gifts of the Spirit with genuine supernatural manifestations are what kids today need to witness and experience. If not, it just comes off as a lot of theory, and kids don't buy into that sort of thing. Just my opinion.

It's probably the most difficult passage in the NT to translate because of the use of κατέχον in verse 6 and then again in verse 7. But emerge is excellent, and if you want my interpretation on the entire passage, the translation should read as follows, with κατέχον highlighted and underlined both times: "Do you not remember that when I was with you I was telling you these things? And you know it yet remains for him to be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already on its way to realization, only he is holding back at present until he manifests (or emerges) out of the midst, and then shall that lawless one be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus Christ will destroy with the breath of His mouth and depose with the brightness of His coming." (2 Thessalonians 2:5-8) In verse 6 it is neuter, and refers to the report or prophecy about the Antichrist coming, as referred to in Matthew and Daniel. If you look up Liddell-Scott, the verb is occasionally used in the sense of "the report prevails" that such and such is happening or will happen, and this fits with the neuter usage in verse 6 perfectly. In verse 7 it is masculine, and refers to the Antichrist himself, who would emerge out of the midst of the Roman empire as the one prophesied to fulfill the prophecy. Caligula came very close to fulfilling the prophesies concerning the Antichrist and even wanted to have a massive statue of himself in the form of Zues transported to Jerusalem and erected there, only he didn't succeed. But this is what made the apostles believe it was only a matter of time before an emperor arose who would fulfill the prophecy because relations between the Jews and the Romans were only getting worse, and indeed it would only be another 15 years or so from the time of Paul's writing 2nd Thessalonians before Jerusalem would be conquered. This is why Paul stated that "the mystery of lawlessness is already on its way to realization, only he is holding back at present until he emerges out of the midst..." I know this differs from what you currently accept about other aspects of the passage, and how tough it can be to have to rethink a passage through in some instances. But this is the way I interpret the passage, and it very much holds weight, not only with the actual grammar being used but with the history of what was going on at the time as well.

You are very close in my opinion, brother. Your translation of "emerge" is good. I prefer "manifest," but either communicates the same point. We differ on "what withholds," as I think that is poorly translated as well. But I will withhold that unless it is something you want to hear. So when did you come to see "emerge" as proper interpretation?

Without wanting to attack the church, yes. I have seen this happen a LOT in the last 20 years, even as a youth pastor for some time. Many differ on what they think the reason is, but my personal opinion is that it is because we do not raise up children in the way they should go, which is in the FEAR of the Lord (Psalm 34:11). We do not teach them about Hell from an early age, and I believe this is why as they get old enough to be on their own, they DO depart from it (Proverbs 22:6). Granted, I think it takes more than simply teaching them the fear of God; I think it also involves teaching them all the blessings that come with serving God, both in this life and the next. But as scripture says, "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom," and that is where we must begin with them, or they will continue to be seduced away from the faith, as I have personally witnessed more times than I care to talk about.

I would say just keep giving your life to Him, 4Ld. If we keep giving ourselves to His service, eventually the call of God on our life becomes so strong that we have no choice but to enter ministry of some kind, and with that we find the Lord starts providing us with others who will help us in that ministry; people who are of similar or compatible callings, and who are like kindred spirits with us. I was referring to sexual self-control specifically, LoL. But there is also a type of control we need to keep over our emotional nature as well. I think this is indeed the case, and there is nothing wrong with that. All Christians need someone, and God never intended us to be alone, even if we are single. He intends for all of us to be a body together, and a family, so that everyone has their needs met. But again, you will find strong companionship in the Lord if you find your true calling and purpose, and begin pursuing it. Then the Lord can move you into relationships that are lasting and meaningful, and based on service to God. I say all that because I was actually alone and lonely as a believer for many years, despite being married and despite having a lot of believers around me. But as I started entering my calling more, suddenly I was of more value to people, and since then I have developed many friends, and a few friendships with people who serve God with me side by side. So just keep remaining faithful. The time will eventually come when He will provide you with such things.

The passage Gary Lee cited is the one you are looking for on this issue. To fully explain it would require a full teaching on the importance of fasting in the early church (1 Corinthians 7:5), which has a taming effect upon the sex drive. But Paul's teaching makes it abundantly clear that he considered the single life as preferred over the married life, at least for those who could succeed at it without losing self-control. The more a believer is free to pursue the things of God alone, the more he can be of use to Him, plain and simple.

Yes, and I believe eventually this right will be withdrawn when the Islamic caliphate is finally established after the Mahdi assumes power. At that time the saying will be fulfilled which promised that "no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Revelations 13:7). Just because there is "no compulsion" now does not mean there won't be full compulsion eventually. Muslims are notorious for turning the tables on host countries once they gain significant enough numbers to have a political say in things.

Close. But I don't think He was saying here that it would be impossible for all rich men, "loaded down" or not, just difficult. Paul allowed believers to maintain their wealth, so long as they still trusted in God and not their money, telling Timothy, "Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy." (1 Timothy 6:17). I think this was the same lesson Jesus wanted to teach the rich young ruler. He was one of the rich types who needed to be in a position where he would have to trust the Living God alone, i.e. without his money to save him. But the command was not that all rich men necessarily had to divest themselves of their wealth; simply that they needed to trust in God more than in their money.

Well, in a sense I agree, but for the Christian this especially needs be something they exercise discernment on. Maybe the friend simply forgot, or had another more important engagement, or was severely depressed and didn't want to be around anyone, or felt slighted by something WE had done without even realizing it... I think this is where you go to God and ask for His heart on the matter. And if it calls for forgiveness, then strengthen yourself to obey your Heavenly Father (and theirs, hopefully).

Fasting. The less I eat, the more I pray and vice versa. When the flesh is brought under, the spirit rises to ascendancy, and one starts praying in tongues naturally without even being conscious of it. It also happens a lot without fasting, of course, but as far as being able to switch into anointed tongues during prayer normally, it usually takes an extended time of praying with my mind, anywhere between 20-40 minutes usually. Worship does indeed facilitate it for some, btw. Just depends on the person, and how quickly they can enter into true worship.

Possibly here at Worthy. What assignments are they giving you?

Not sure what that is all about, but it's a nice confession. Humility is a good sign, and very becoming of believers in Jesus Christ.

Greetings, Friend Of! The Lord brought to my remembrance that I never interpreted this dream for you, so here's what I'm getting: This is a continuation (in the positive sense now) of the issue of your spiritual hunger, referred to in your third dream when it described you as starving spiritually. The symbolism of the gold pieces is in reference to the true riches of God, i.e. wisdom and revelation from Him (Luke 16:11). That you saw it in the waters meant you saw it "buried" in a sense (the symbolism is a play on the term "buried treasure"). That it is caught up to Heaven and then rains back down again is a reference to the Holy Spirit Himself delivering to you the "hidden riches" (Isaiah 45:3), as your Teacher (John 16:13). But these gold pieces would still need to be picked up and cleaned off of "mud," i.e. anything that makes them "unclean." Once you would "clean" each one off, it would have the number TWO written on it. This is the significant part here, so I want you to pay close attention: Our Lord compared a man well instructed in the word of God to a man bringing forth out of his treasure things (read here revelations/ proper interpretations) both OLD and NEW. What Jesus meant was that the Spirit of God will reveal revelation to His servants from both the Old and New Testaments. The NET even uses the word "treasure chest" here. ("Every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom from heaven is like the master of a household who brings both new and old things out of his treasure chest." Matthew 13:52). This is what the number "TWO" means. Many times you will see revelations from God overlap in the Old and New Testaments, and confirm each other by this means. New Testament writers were continually illustrating this principle in their writings. So the dream ends up being a promise that as of your conversation to Christ you would no longer starve spiritually. The Spirit of God Himself would become your Teacher and grant you spiritual riches which you would bring out of your treasure chest, both old and new. Hope it helps. This is one is definitely more uplifting than the one about you turning into a bloated, starving guy in a closet, LoL.

Wonderful verses, sister. I was actually just on another Forum viewing a very divisive and contentious thread, and reading these verses couldn't be more like breath of fresh air.

That's an interesting distinction... although it still kinda skirts the issue, IMO, since in James 2:14-17 the question is about good works (even as you define them) verses merely trusting in faith alone... sorry, I'm just thinking out loud as I'm writing... For me, the best way to understand this issue is through the terms "sons of obedience" and "sons of disobedience," and the analogy of being adopted as sons. An adopted son doesn't do anything to save himself, but if he wishes to become a true part of the family he will be expected to conform himself to the will of the Father. So too with us. Is salvation through obedience? No. Salvation is through grace alone. But I believe that grace bestowed upon us can be cancelled out if we refuse to conform ourselves to the father's will and walk in obedience to Him, especially in matters very important to Him like forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35), and also ministering to those in need if they belong to God and we have the capacity to (Matthew 25:31-46).