BibleWords

No one has the mark of the beast right now. This will happen when the beast and anti-christ are in control of the world system. Serving the devil in the church age (which is where we are right now) is not the same as having the mark of the beast. The lost can still be saved today, but those who take the mark of the beast will not be able to be saved. No one has the mark of the beast today.

It is so important to see that there are two different things being discussed here. John 14, 1Thess. 4, and 1Cor. 15 all speak of the pre-trib rapture. The verses you are quoting from Matt. 24 and Mark 13 about the marrying and giving in marriage are describing the second coming at the end of the tribulation. We know this because they are taken away in judgement (as Noah’s flood). In the rapture all those taken away are caught up to meet the Lord in the air to proceed to the Father’s house where Jesus has been.These two instances cannot be confused. When they are shoved together to make one event there is nothing but confusion. I believe that most of the end times division and confusion comes from this unbiblical merger of these events. Been doing this a long time and I have seen this same confusing thing. In Christ

The context of Scripture here is Jesus going somewhere (the Father’s house) where there are (many rooms) and He will come again and receive His Bride to go to be where He is (the Father’s house). Not anything about this being our new bodies. The Father’s house is a place already existing where Jesus is going to prepare especially for His bride. We will receive glorified bodies at the rapture, this is true, but this text refers to the Father’s already existing house.

You are incorrect. Jesus taught in John 14 about the Bridegroom coming to take His bride to the Father’s house just as was the custom in the history or Israel. This definitely is not the second coming where He comes in judgement. These two comings have no similarities at all. One is the blessed hope of the church, the other is the coming to set up His kingdom and bring judgement. Not at all similar.

Fair enough.

So, ChristB4us, would you call yourself a KJV only? Or are you defending the Word of God in general. Do you believe other translations are false or misleading? Are you tying the KJV only to the Scripture which says “rightly dividing the Word of Truth” or do you believe you can “rightly divide” other translations. Just wondering, because you used the term “KJV” several times.

Totally agree. The Bible clearly, I believe, teaches a Pre-Trib rapture. I have used the Jewish wedding example for a good while. Even preached it. The Jewish wedding is the perfect Bible example that God gave us of Christ and the church. And you are correct, Darby didn’t give us the first rapture teaching, Jesus did in John 14. Paul after that in 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 The pre-trib rapture was the belief of the first two centuries of the church before the amillennial movement took over as the dominant belief. Post trib was the late arrival on the scene. Great perspective.

I would always respond to anyone, any age, that sought to know Christ with the gospel message. Been doing that for years as a pastor and before that street preaching. We have to be like Jesus and take the gospel to the world. Matt. 28:19-20

I will let this thread go for the sake of everyone. But I have always called out false doctrine. Hard to teach truth without exposing heresy. In Christ, BibleWords

Not one of those proof texts proves a thing about a flood to destroy a first earth. God never sent two floods to destroy the earth. Absolutely no where in Scripture does it teach any such thing. This is a clear case of adding to the Bible what it does not say. The reason I do not believe in a pre-Adamic world or creation is because it is false and not taught at all in Scripture.

Can I interject here? I believe the woman in Rev. 12 has to be Israel. The surrounding verses in context tell us that Israel is in view here. On the other note, the 24 elders seen before the throne in Rev. 4:4 must represent the church as they have crowns which are to my knowledge only given to the church.

I don’t believe the gap theory has any credibility at all. There is no scriptural evidence for it. C. I. Scofield was wrong in his assessment of the beginning. He was good on a lot of other things, including dispensationalism and the rapture, but I think he completely missed it on the doctrine of the beginning.

2 Thess. 2:3– In the last days there will come a great falling away, a great apostasy. As a pastor I can tell you this is not just a youth problem. Many adults are leaving the churches as well. The love of many is growing cold. There are a number of reasons for this. 1. Unsound Bible teaching. 2. Lack of Christian love. 3. Competition from worldly entertainment. 4. Lack of commitment to Christ. 5. Ashamed of Christ. 6. Lazy. 7. Confused. 8. Internet worship. Probably could think of a few more but you get the picture.

“In the beginning was the Word”. Talk about the preeminence of God. Just like Genesis 1:1, God begins everything. Before everything else, God is.

These are the “saints” who come to Christ after the rapture. Not the church. Tribulation saints are not the Bride of Christ. Yet they are “saints” because they have trusted Christ for salvation.

The elders were not there before Jesus got there. John saw the elders and Jesus. “At this point I had another vision and saw an open door in heaven.” Rev. 4:1 And the voice that sounded like a trumpet, which I had heard speaking to me before, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” Rev. 4:1 Rev.4:2–At once the Spirit took control of me. There in heaven was a throne with someone sitting on it.” Rev. 4:4–“In a circle around the throne were twenty-four other thrones, on which were seated twenty-four elders dressed in white and wearing crowns of gold.” The elders are there encircling the throne where Christ is. Rev. 5:6 They did not precede His arrival there. He is already there. So is the Father. Both on the throne. What I meant by “vision” is just that. John is seeing a vision of this entire scene. Not a chronological order of events like a schedule. John sees this vision all at once. This does not teach that the elders are there before Jesus. It’s a vision.

Amen

Jesus said in John 14:2-“I go to prepare a place for you”. Jesus was going to the Father’s house. He said so. The church did not go there before Him. Rev. 4 is a vision of heaven, and yes Jesus is there, but He didn’t just get there. He has been with the Father for 2000 years, sitting at the Father’s right hand. Rev. 4—A vision.

Talk to her then about the fact that Jesus loves her and is interested in everything about her life. He will help her no matter where she is in life. Pray with her and for her.

I don’t care what any “new” revelation from anyone says. The Bible is the inspired Word of God and anyone or any thing that disputes or contradicts it is wrong. I totally reject false teaching that attacks the Bible. I am not, and will not be understanding or tolerant with any divergent teaching that denies the inspiration of the Word of God, the Lordship of Jesus Christ or rejects that there is but one God who is the Trinity, Father and Son and Holy Spirit. Don’t know about the “crisis” you speak of. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Is this girl a believer?

Gen. 1:27 absolutely does not say that there was another wife besides Eve. This teaching would fly in the face of inspired Scripture. It is totally false. Eve was the mother of all living. Gen. 2:22,23 Gen. 3:8,20

Actually you are right. It is not in fact the rapture seen here, but God sending His angels to gather His elect, Israel, from all corners of the world. The rapture would have happened 7 years before this.

The rapture is real! The Bible teaches it and that it will occur prior to the great tribulation. It is a secret coming. Paul called it a be mystery. It will happen as a thief in the night when Christ comes for His church. And yes, you would know the tribulation had started because it is different than any other time has ever been in history. Fortunately, if you are saved you will be gone to the Father’s house. John 14:1-4 is one of the Scriptures which teach a pre-trib rapture. Jesus starts out with “let not your heart be troubled” in verse 1. He was reassuring His disciples that everything would be ok. He did not say, sorry you may go through the worst time the earth has ever seen but don’t worry, right before the time of wrath I’ll come and get you out. It is called the time of Jacob’s troubles for a reason. It is not the time of the suffering church. We will not be here. The problem with most confusion on the rapture is in not seeing that they’re two distinct comings. There is not just one coming. The characteristics of the two comings are completely different. At the rapture Jesus comes in the air and never to earth. We are caught up in the clouds with the resurrected believers. 1 Thess. 4:16-18 is very clear. No mid-trib. No post-trib. No partial rapture. No pre-wrath. No judgement. The rapture is a time of catching away the church, not of out pouring wrath. The rapture is our blessed hope, a promise of comfort. 1 Thess. 4:18 “Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” There would be no comfort if the church was to go through the tribulation. That’s not comforting. No, we escape through the rapture. Also, John Nelson Darby did not start the rapture doctrine. Jesus did, followed by Paul. That is like saying Billy Graham started the doctrine of evangelism. These men were proponents of these doctrines but they did not originate with them. They originated in the Bible. There are two distinct comings of Christ at the end. They are the rapture and the second coming.

It is unfortunate that the figure of speech which declares that one day is as a thousand years ever got completely misused by anyone. It is a figure of speech. Like “give me a minute” or “that will take forever” or “he is as old as the hills.” It was a figure of speech to tell us that time is irrelevant to God. That’s all. Never meant to be used for measuring time.