wingnut-

One of the things I caught a little piece of that really stuck out to me, was on either CNN, or MSNBC. But they had a reporter on location, and one back in the studios talking to him, and she was so frustrated because he could not find any protesters to interview. So then she resorted to saying, well it's not that there are not protesters there, they just can't get close enough! I had to burst out laughing at that one, because if they couldn't get close enough it was probably because of the mass of people who wanted to get a picture with Trump. Delusional hysteria, that is the best way I can think to describe today's MSM, totally out of touch with reality.

I think what they have forgotten is that in this country we have what is called due process, which of course means that allegations are proof of nothing until proven in a court of law. Since they cannot seem to ever prove anything, they have reverted to the belief that allegations somehow equate to guilt.

Though Luke does not specify, the other two accounts written on this tell us precisely who He was speaking to. Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” Mark 13:3 And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

That wasn't what I meant, but I can see how it came across that way.

So when it says a multitude of nations, you are saying that means a multitude of tribes? I'm not understanding how one of the 12 tribes (Ephraim) can be a multitude of tribes.

Yes, very convenient for them.

I agree, but of course the promise came through Abraham to his descendants. But for arguments sake, let's go with only the direct descendants of Jacob (Israel), particularly through Joseph and his two sons. Genesis 48:15 And he blessed Joseph and said, “The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day, 16 the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the boys; and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.” And to Ephraim and Manasseh Genesis 48:18 And Joseph said to his father, “Not this way, my father; since this one is the firstborn, put your right hand on his head.” 19 But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great. Nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of nations.” 20 So he blessed them that day, saying, “By you Israel will pronounce blessings, saying, ‘God make you as Ephraim and as Manasseh.’” Thus he put Ephraim before Manasseh. So how can Manasseh be a great people, and Ephraim be greater and a multitude of nations? Either way we are right back to where we started, more than one nation, right? God bless

Hey brother, sorry for the delay in responding to this, but as always I give anything offered due consideration and thought. In this case, I don't think it is that simple, we cannot just limit the soul to merely an air breather. The reason being, this makes us the equivalent of any other air breather, such as a dog, elephant, rhino, etc. Animals do not have a soul, but they are still air breathers, and when they cease breathing it is just the body that dies. For people it is the same thing, it is the body that requires breathing in regards to oxygen, which makes the soul a spiritual aspect. God didn't merely form man from the dust of the ground, we were created in His image, special. When one ceases breathing, it is the body that dies. We have to examine the difference between all air breathers, and nowhere are we told of animals receiving a breath of life from God. Well, in regards to this I think we have some disagreement, so I will post some scripture that explains why this is not so. Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Verse 28 is the main point here, Jesus is talking to His disciples in this passage (not just the twelve necessarily). Point is, He says that some will not taste death UNTIL they see Him coming. Now we know that none of these men are still breathing air, so how do you explain that? To me, the answer is given multiple times. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. So where is He now? And since their bodies are no longer breathing air, where are they? Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. The body no doubt returns to the ground, but that is not the end of existence. I really have a hard time wrapping my mind around exactly what the soul is, but I do understand there are three parts to a man; the body, the soul, and the spirit. The body is temporal, the spirit is eternal, and it appears to me the soul is somewhere in between the two, almost like three stages of existence. God bless

Praying

Yeah, right! Such a ridiculous excuse, let's just see if the phone companies records still exist.

I guess Fruchtenbaum missed out on some important aspects, like how Abram became Abraham and what that meant. Genesis 17: 3 Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him, 4 “Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. 8 And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.” God bless

Hey retro, I understand you weren't specifically referencing the original language, but the languages the text was written in. Sorry, I didn't express what I was saying well and can see how I threw you off a bit there. As I had mentioned before, Greek I know well from growing up with it, but Hebrew or Aramaic I do not know. What I was driving at, is that over the course of time on this forum, I have seen someone like yourself or others who are knowledgeable in those two languages point out meaning found within those words. I already knew that, without having known the language, so this knowledge came through divine inspiration. What I was driving at when I said the original language is easiest to display in this question. What language does the Holy Spirit speak? For length of the post sake, I did not quote this entire part of your response, but will address most of what you posted in my response. I guess the first thing I would take issue with here is that you are assuming that "keepers of God's commandments" is a reference to the law of Moses. I do not make that assumption, instead, I think that when Jesus gave us His two greatest commandments this is what the reference is about. The Old Covenant was done away with, so to me considering this to be the law of Moses is going backward. It is necessary for all believers to heed the two commandments Jesus gave us, which according to Him, Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets. The New Covenant overrides the Old, and if someone is not abiding in these two commandments then they are not holders of Yeshua's evidence either. To me, this is precisely what that term means, "holders of Yeshua's evidence" are people of faith in Him, not the law of Moses. If Christians are not striving to love God and others, then it is hard to accept that they are Christians at all. We are known by our fruit, right? And these were commandments from Jesus, right? Not suggestions? Now I'm not saying that grace does not factor into salvation at all, so don't misunderstand me here, because this has nothing to do with law. We all stumble, and we all sin, but scripture to me seems fairly clear that anyone who has the Holy Spirit makes an effort to please God. One standout factor to me is the resounding example surrounding love, how it is defined, the measure of importance placed on it, and that those who have no love are doing something wrong. In response to this I just want to point out a few things. It isn't simply based on the 1/3 being "brought through the fire", although I think you may be minimizing what that means. In order to be brought through the fire, they have to be around when the fire comes, and that doesn't happen until He comes, and then again at the conclusion of the millennium. So there are only two possibilities here, they are brought through the fire at His coming, or at the end of the millennium. I believe it is referring to the former. The other thing is in regards to the 2/3, Zechariah specifically states they are "cut off and die". This phrase appears in the Old Testament over 200 times, and on not one of those occasions can it be described as anything but a very undesirable result. In the New Testament it comes up a dozen times, and again, not once is it anything but undesirable. They are not merely cut off, but they also die. The last thing is, we are not simply Justified by God, we are justified by Faith in God, through Jesus Christ. Now the woman is being nourished for 3 1/2 years, so I guess the question is, what do you think they are doing during this time? The issue I have with this is, God is no respecter of persons, nor does He play favorites. The children of Israel that preceded Him met Him following His death on the cross and made their choice at that time. This is the passage I referenced from Matthew 27 and what it is talking about. Every single person from the time Jesus walked this earth until His return have the facts and make their choice. The children of Israel that witnessed His ministry and the miraculous things He did on this earth and still chose to reject Him made their choice. They had Him in their presence, and still many rejected Him, but not all. I'm not really sure what you mean by the resurrection preceding their introduction to Him if you are referring to the first resurrection John speaks of, because they were introduced to Him at the same time everyone else was. And I also think that the 1/3 is figuring out the truth during their 3 1/2 year period in the wilderness. I agree there are two kinds, and I agree with your definition of those two kinds. The first kind is a return to mortality, which was done to display God's divine authority and was always done for the specific purpose of displaying that. However I disagree with you on the occurrence in Matthew 27 being of the first type, it was definitely of the second type and Paul discusses this very thing when he points to Psalm 68. Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) He led a host of captives from the lower regions which was the Old Testament saints that were released from their tombs upon His resurrection. If you look at Psalm 68, you can see it is a large number of people, and He led them to heaven. In I Corinthians, Paul tells us there are only two of these types of resurrection that will ever occur; Christ's, and the first resurrection found in Revelation. I Corinthians 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Now maybe they are still waiting for their immortal bodies, but that doesn't align with people being able to see them, so it is more than likely that they have already received their immortal bodies. It isn't specifically stated either way, but there is also no evidence to support that this group that came out of the tombs went back to a mortal routine. Scripture here indicates that they did not. I don't disagree with you, thanks for clearing that up. Of course, since I disagree with you regarding what occurred upon Christ's resurrection, we are still looking at this from a different view. Their resurrection has already occurred because they are the host of captives He led on high already. Something specific to look at in the passage, it splits up the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem into two groups. Why do you suppose that is? Keep in mind that Jerusalem at this time has been given over to the gentiles, and one other important detail to me is this. Who pierced Him? The Romans did if I am not mistaken. So I am not sure we can assume that this is directed at one group of people, or that we can conclude this means people who are already dead. If we are going to look at that as literally meaning the people who drove the nails in, or pierced His side, then we cannot claim this is spoken to Jewish people, or at least not that specific part of it. Let's not forget that the only group we see turn to the Lord in the entire book of Revelation is found in Jerusalem. (Revelation 11) Just some thoughts for you to consider, look forward to your feedback as always. God bless

II Corinthians 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Personally, I don't blame either. I can understand the man being upset at the outcome, but really it was an unwise decision and a person should never risk more than they can afford to lose. Hard to really comment on her, considering we don't really know when she made her decision. If she made it early on, then yeah, she took advantage of him. If she made it later on, because of his behavior, then maybe her choice is one anyone would have made. He needs to forgive and get past any hard feelings he has. He can't force her to marry him, and is probably better off that she didn't if she was just using him. Probably not everyone, maybe not even most, but a good count I reckon. God bless

Feelings can't be trusted. If you didn't care, why would you ask for prayer? Why would you post it on a forum? Whatever sin you are committing, stop doing it. Repent! God will forgive you but you have to do your part as well. God bless

Maybe it's time the voters start flexing their muscles at the polls then and removing the politicians who have decided we don't matter.

First of all, I never claimed He did not die. Second, look at the verse you posted, His flesh died, not His Spirit. This is precisely what takes place for all those born again. The biggest difference here is that we differ on the body being an earthly tent, a temporary dwelling. You also are limiting what the soul truly is, to nothing more than a single qualifier as "air breather". By doing so, you are making yourself the equivalent of a dog, rhino, elephant, or any other air breathing creature. We are not like anything else in creation. Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Now notice in the verse that God says, in OUR image, after OUR likeness. Who do you think the OUR is? This is the other reason we don't see eye to eye, because based on our past conversations, you don't believe Jesus is God. You want to say He ceased to exist, for no matter how short of a time, this simply doesn't align with scripture in my view. Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” I appreciate the conversation, but at this point we are covering ground we have already covered, and I don't wish to continue in a circular argument. My position has not changed, and I doubt yours has either, so probably best to leave it at that and allow the OP to go in the direction she wishes. God bless

II Timothy 3 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Incorrect, look at the passage again, because it is very explicit in the language. I'll highlight a different section for you, because this is what it means to be a true Christian. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” His sheep, are true Christians, He knows them, and they follow Him. Doesn't get much clearer than that. If your point is, that not everyone who goes to church every week, or claims to know the Lord is how you define a true Christian, then sure. But what I am talking about, is what a true Christian is according to scripture, and there is no scripture which contradicts this passage. If a person is not abiding in Him, they are not a true Christian. Refer to the passage I posted, His sheep follow Him, or in other words, abide in Him. Scripture states that a true believer is known by their fruits, so if no fruit, not a true believer. It is possible obviously, this is why people are condemned, but not one of them will be a true Christian. Again, His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. God bless

I agree with 2/3 of your post, on the specific point above I would say you are way off base. John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” A true Christian cannot be taken away, not according to Jesus. God bless

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”

Is He not omnipresent? Perhaps you have forgotten what occurred. Matthew 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. 51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Hey retro, I agree with you on the above, I also believe the latter as we are grafted into the vine. On this we don't agree. The way I see it, God made all of the languages when He confused them to begin with, and we don't really know what the original language even was. What we do know is that He promised His words would stand forever, and to me that covers all languages as He knew that everyone did not speak the same one. Another reason I disagree is based on personal experience, in that divine inspiration has given me knowledge of something that I would later learn was rooted in the original language, particularly in regards to the OT writings. So the truth is revealed through the Spirit, and language is no barrier for Him. From knowing Greek, I don't take issue with your version of the translation, but to me it says the exact same thing as the translated text I read in various bible versions I trust. I'm not sure I am following you here. Messianic Jews are believers, that is what makes them Messianic Jews, and I definitely don't believe they are the only ones because it also includes Gentile believers. There are only two groups in question in this passage, the woman, and the remnant of her seed (offspring in some translations). So if we determine the woman represents Israel, as in ethnic Israel by lineage, then we have to determine who the remnant of her seed is. The woman is protected from the enemy for 3 1/2 years, so this removes them from the other group or any possibility of being confused with the other group. We also have to account for Zechariah's prophecy regarding the nation of Israel, only 1/3 will be brought through the fire. Since they are brought through the fire by the Lord, and that supports the information given regarding the woman in Revelation 12, to me this is very solid evidence. The 2/3 that this does not include will be cut off and die, so this excludes them from being involved in either of these two groups. Based on what we are told regarding the remnant of the seed, there is only one option remaining, believers. This is supported by Revelation 13, in regards to the war against the saints for the exact same length of time, 3 1/2 years. I'm really not seeing any other possibilities here given the time requirements. I don't disagree with you here, in fact, I think scripture tells us precisely when this occurred. Matthew 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. 51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. I am not following you here at all, how exactly do you reach that conclusion from the passage?

Well, I simply disagree, and really the entire debate was resolved at the cross. Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Either one believes what Jesus said to the thief, or one does not. The rest of this is just window dressing. God bless

Yes, you explained it well. Not sure if you have seen any of these recent commercials on TV, but the court recently ordered the tobacco companies to pay for an ad campaign explaining what they have been doing. Not only have they tampered with the nicotine to make it affect the brain, but they have manipulated the paper and the filters in the cigarettes as well to increase addiction. Also they have had to admit that light cigarettes and ultra light cigarettes contain just as much nicotine and tar as regular cigarettes, so anyone who thinks they are safer using those light products, has been deceived. These practices alone are reason enough to inspire people to quit in my opinion. God bless