The Pre-Trib Rapture, and the Book of Revelation

[WolfBitn]

I think the rapture, and really most-to-all of Eschatology, is the least important of all teachings... sorry to everyone who really gets off on it. I personally don't believe in the "Rapture", and as far as I understand, neither did the original Church. They were much more effectinve than the 21st Century Church. Maye we should learn a lesson.

1/3 of the Scriptures is Bible prophecy particularly as it relates to the end-times. If God invested that much of his Word on the subject, it would seem fairly important biblical subject matter. I don't think we should rip each other to shreds over the rapture issue, but eschatology is a very important part of the Word of God.

Shiloh,

In this we agree. Let me offer a thought. I may be wrong, but i dont believe this poster is saying there is no resurrection, just no pre trib rapture, and in this id have to say hes right if this is what he meant. Traditionally since the very early church it has been said that antichrist will wage war on the saints and that this is the final sign of His coming. A secret pre trib rapture was never even considered before the early 19th century.

Lets consider this too... we determine sound doctrine from unsound doctrine based on foundational scripture. There isnt a single passage in all of scripture declaring a rapture BEFORE the trib... they base it all on scripture out of context when it comes down to it, and inferances that can be take n in many ways... its also neccessary to not take scripture literally when one defends the pre trib rapture... we cant believe the words of Christ for instance, that the resurrection occurs at the last day

Yes we will be caught up to meet the Lord... but this word translated 'meet' has a particular connotation... meaning to leave a place to meet someone coming to you, and escorting them back to where you left from.

[Massorite]

I think the rapture, and really most-to-all of Eschatology, is the least important of all teachings... sorry to everyone who really gets off on it. I personally don't believe in the "Rapture", and as far as I understand, neither did the original Church. They were much more effective than the ST Century Church. Maye we should learn a lesson.

End time beliefs are just like any other scripture. All of it is the word of God and all of it is equally important in the eyes of God. The one thing that is most important about Eschatology is this. What or how you believe about the end time events will without a doubt determine how you react to any prophetic fulfillment. In fact it is so important to God that he saw fit to give us warning about what is coming upon us. Not only did he give us an entire book on Eschatology he loaded prophetic scripture in almost every other book he gave us. You should never down play or cast aside any part of the word of God at any time for any reason. That is why God is telling us about a great falling away. Unsaved people can't fall away or depart from the faith if they don't have any faith in God in the first place. All of Eschatology is in the word of God for the saved, not the unsaved. A wise king sees trouble coming and gets out of the way. Well we can't very well get out of the way by sticking our heads in the sand now can we. As for me I use Eschatology to preach the gospel because prophetic scripture that has already been fulfilled is something folks can sink their teeth in. There are lots of people that I has preached too using Eschatology who didn't believe me but one day when these prophetic Scriptures are fulfilled in front of their eyes they will remember the words I spoke to them.

The lesson to learn here is that not only did the early church interpreted the bible literally and they studied all of it and it was all equally important to them.

[OneLight]

I think the rapture, and really most-to-all of Eschatology, is the least important of all teachings... sorry to everyone who really gets off on it. I personally don't believe in the "Rapture", and as far as I understand, neither did the original Church. They were much more effectinve than the 21st Century Church. Maye we should learn a lesson.

1/3 of the Scriptures is Bible prophecy particularly as it relates to the end-times. If God invested that much of his Word on the subject, it would seem fairly important biblical subject matter. I don't think we should rip each other to shreds over the rapture issue, but eschatology is a very important part of the Word of God.

Shiloh,

In this we agree. Let me offer a thought. I may be wrong, but i dont believe this poster is saying there is no resurrection, just no pre trib rapture, and in this id have to say hes right if this is what he meant. Traditionally since the very early church it has been said that antichrist will wage war on the saints and that this is the final sign of His coming. A secret pre trib rapture was never even considered before the early 19th century.

Lets consider this too... we determine sound doctrine from unsound doctrine based on foundational scripture. There isnt a single passage in all of scripture declaring a rapture BEFORE the trib... they base it all on scripture out of context when it comes down to it, and inferances that can be take n in many ways... its also neccessary to not take scripture literally when one defends the pre trib rapture... we cant believe the words of Christ for instance, that the resurrection occurs at the last day

Yes we will be caught up to meet the Lord... but this word translated 'meet' has a particular connotation... meaning to leave a place to meet someone coming to you, and escorting them back to where you left from.

Can you show me how you came up with the belief that this word meet includes "escorting them back to where you left from"? From my studies, I have been able to find that the world only indicates the following:

The expression eis (unto) apantēsis (meeting) indicates that the Lord will be coming from one direction and we shall be coming from another to meet in the air.

Thanks,

Alan

[WolfBitn]

Can you show me how you came up with the belief that this word meet includes "escorting them back to where you left from"? From my studies, I have been able to find that the world only indicates the following:

The expression eis (unto) apantēsis (meeting) indicates that the Lord will be coming from one direction and we shall be coming from another to meet in the air.

Thanks,

Alan

Hi Alan, happy to

Acts 28:14-16 (King James Version)

14 Where we found brethren, and were desired to tarry with them seven days: and so we went toward Rome.

15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

16 And when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard: but Paul was suffered to dwell by himself with a soldier that kept him.

Here, knowing paul was on the way to rome, people came to meet him on his way to escort him there. In the same way we are gathered to meet the Lord in the air and we escort Him back to watch Him take His kingdom

God bless

[WolfBitn]

i love these passages... to me though the most revealing rapture passage is form Daniel 11:40-12:2

[improved]

I think the rapture, and really most-to-all of Eschatology, is the least important of all teachings... sorry to everyone who really gets off on it. I personally don't believe in the "Rapture", and as far as I understand, neither did the original Church. They were much more effectinve than the 21st Century Church. Maye we should learn a lesson.

1/3 of the Scriptures is Bible prophecy particularly as it relates to the end-times. If God invested that much of his Word on the subject, it would seem fairly important biblical subject matter. I don't think we should rip each other to shreds over the rapture issue, but eschatology is a very important part of the Word of God.

Shiloh,

In this we agree. Let me offer a thought. I may be wrong, but i dont believe this poster is saying there is no resurrection, just no pre trib rapture, and in this id have to say hes right if this is what he meant. Traditionally since the very early church it has been said that antichrist will wage war on the saints and that this is the final sign of His coming. A secret pre trib rapture was never even considered before the early 19th century.

Lets consider this too... we determine sound doctrine from unsound doctrine based on foundational scripture. There isnt a single passage in all of scripture declaring a rapture BEFORE the trib... they base it all on scripture out of context when it comes down to it, and inferances that can be take n in many ways... its also neccessary to not take scripture literally when one defends the pre trib rapture... we cant believe the words of Christ for instance, that the resurrection occurs at the last day

Yes we will be caught up to meet the Lord... but this word translated 'meet' has a particular connotation... meaning to leave a place to meet someone coming to you, and escorting them back to where you left from.

You're getting the right idea. I didn't say any part of the Bible is unimportant, but I don't think I communicated it right. What I'm trying to say, is that the fashion in which our Lord comes back is inconsequential if you are truly loving Him in this physical love time. Love is an action that enveleopes everything you do. I don't believe in the "blink of an eye, go into the sky Rapture" to avoid the one-man Anti-Christ, type of Eschatology so what? I will let nothing stop me from loving God. If the Rapture comes, I'll be taken up if I have devoted all my energy to loving God and showing compassion on his people (etc,etc,etc.). If the rapture doesn't come, I won't love God any less, and you won't see me sitting on my hands, looking into the sky, anxiously losing my hair as I wait for the Lord to come back.

God is good, and God is a powerful, conquering King, even now from Heaven. He gave us Grace to empower us to be overcomers. He told us to subdue the Earth and make His glory cover the Earth. Even from before the sin of Adam there was work to be done. Eden was Heaven on Earth, and Adam was to work the garden so it would cover the Earth. Now, because of Sin the work load is heavier and harder. Focus on this work, not on when we get out of here? I believe the Lord will come after we have overcome AFTER WE have made His Glory cover. Why would our Holy, sanctified, clean Lord let Himself come to this Earth (in His new body, which not even one person was allowed to touch) when we have been just as empowered?

I agree with the statement on going to "meet" Him mean more of going to "greet" Him. Personally, this is a little too ambiguous of a verse to base all of my theology off of. Also, sometimes people don't realize what stuff has already happened, what stuff is poetic, etc. when interpreting Apocalyptic scripture. This isn't an attack at anyone, any statement, or any view held in this discussion as far as I know. It is just an observation I have made over years of people trying to teach me different doctrines. That is another reason I don't place such a hard emphasis on Eschatology, when other parts are more cut and dry, pertaining to what is right in my face, right now.

[Guest kaoticprofit]

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Edited September 13, 2009 by kaoticprofit