Is OSAS true

[Massorite]

Once we are His, nobody can claim we are not His anymore. God promised He will not do it! He promised that He will never leave us nor forsake us. God's children are new creatures, born again of the Holy Spirit, calling Him Abba Father.

Never said God would leave us, what I said is that we are free to leave Him if we choose.

The enemy must have a good laugh at all these discussions. He is probably very happy for those who are spreading doubts and fears in the hearts of God's children. However, the victory over Satan has already been won at the Cross and by faith in their Heavenly Father, God's children will overcome.

Praise the Lord!

Although I do not believe in the doctrine of eternal security, I have no fear, I am totally secure in my salvation.

If you believe that God never leaves us, then you should believe in eternal security in our eternal Father.

I cannot believe in eternal security, because scripture teaches we can turn from God. Matter of fact scriptures says we are better off never being saved than turning from our salvation after once receiving it. Pretty clear, there is no eternal security in scripture. I must believe God over man.

You seem to continue to believe that Eternal Security goes against free will. Why is that? I have seen nobody arguing this point with you, only that your point is not complete the way you put it.

Again I ask, if you, through your free will, continue to walk in His will all your life and pass away, is not your eternity secure in Him?

The doctrine that Eternal Security is false is in itself a false teaching, unless you remove the free will, then Eternal Security becomes Once Saved, Always Saved. Teaching that I do not have Eternal Security in Him ever is a lie straight from hell. You are placing fear in peoples lives. Only those who willfully turn from Christ are in danger of hell. Those who continue the race until the end have nothing to fear, for Christ died for our sins and those who finish are secure in their salvation.

I suggest that you step back and re-read all that has been posted to your statements, and then some others, to see that in your statements, you do not, in fact, understand what others are trying to explain to you, as to where you are missing the mark.

I actually agree with you post, however you obviously do not know what Eternal Security teaches, it teaches that you cannot of your free will walk away from God. That is a false teaching.

That is not my understand of Eternal Security, but of OSAS.

Lets get our facts or ducks in a row here folks. You are correct onelight the Eternal Security teaching is simply another name for OSAS. They are one in the same false doctrinal teaching. As has already been pointed out here on several occasions there is no scripture to re-enforce, back up, justify the teaching. Every single promise that God has ever made except for the promise of Agape Love, has had conditions attached to the promise. And I would challenge anyone who would, to come up with scripture that proves that God made a promise that there was not a condition attached to it.

If you adide by My statutes, If you keep My commandments, If you keep your face looking at Me, If you worship Me, If you give your will up to Me, If you will give Me a sacrifice of Praise. I could go on but there is no need to. If we don't abide by the conditions set forth by God to keep our salvation once He has offered it and we have excepted the offer then God is not obligated to keep His promise.

What does Jesus say? Believe in Me, be Baptized and you shall be saved? So what if we stop believing? Do we still get the gift of eternal life that was given because we believed? No! I don't think so.

[Guest shiloh357]

They are the exact same teaching. Now I agree I am eternally secure in Christ, but if I decided to walk away from God, God would not stop me.

That me be true as to how people see it today, but it was not so in the past. Eternal Security has a founding from scripture. Satan, trying to twist another peace of scripture placed in the minds of those who did not agree, the thought of Once Saved, Always Saved. Because of this, it now is seen as the same.

In Scripture, we can find many that will tell us that if we follow Gods leading in our life and fulfill His will, that we are secured in our salvation, bringing Eternal Security. You even agree with this. Yet, because of the slyness of Satan, confusion has abounded once again and the true meaning of Eternal Security has been lost or forgotten by those who refuse to believe that one can be eternally secure. OSAS has now become its replacement sue to not taking the time to divide the two. It is a lot easier to say it is the same then it is to look at the differences.

OSAS is a doctrine that states that you, once you has asked Jesus to save you from your sins, can live a life of sin without repentance, for CHrist died for our past, present and future sins. Even though He has, we still need to seek true repentance and forgiveness, which is the sill of God. The lie is when people believe that they can live anyway they choose, even if that means not being in His will. Yes, we all sin and fall short of the glory of GOd, yet, it are those who do not have the heart to follow His will the best they can that are in danger with this belief.

Eternal Security is just that, for those who continue to live the life God has for then to live, dying to themselves daily so that He can live in and through them. Those who are truly seeking His will in their life do have Eternal Security. Those who do not, do not.

There is a difference if you look at scripture instead of what people say. Do not accept teh common understanding, but seek scripture as the Berean, and find for yourself the difference.

Your definition of eternal security which is ''if we follow Gods leading in our life and fulfill His will, that we are secured in our salvation'' is true.

That is not how eternal security is defined. Eternal Security is the expectation of holy living. Religious vanity wants to deserve and earn salvation so that it can boast in itself.

Salvation by its very definition in ANY context is not something you can earn or maintain. Whether you are talking about saving someone from drowning in a river, or an errant hiker off the side of a mountain, or whatever, in EVERY case salvation is provided because a person was incapable of delivering themselves. Salvation has to come from someone else other than themselves as they are helpless and hopelessly doomed on their own. It is not a "partnership" between them and their rescuers. They are not working to engineer salvation.

Furthermore, no one "secures" themselves. Once you are saved from danger, you are not still "working" to keep from falling off the cliff. Rather, you are walking in the salvation provided by someone else. This is true no matter what context you are talking about whether it is physical salvation from danger or spiritual salvation from sin.

Salvation is always somethintg that occurs independent of you and your abilities. If salvation could be secured by you, you would not need a savior to start with.

Our works do not secure salvation. They are the means by which we walk in it. Salvation that is conditional upon works makes man the savior. It diminishes Christ and robs glory from God. It also fails to recognize that your works, no matter how "holy" and grandiose they may appear in your eyes, are filthy to God.

Salvation is Jesus + Zero. The notion that salvation depends on works is not part of the biblical, New Testament Christian faith. It is a rather a cultic, fleshly belief based on the pride and arrogance of human vanity.

Tell me, is what I highlighted what you are talking about? I really think you are misunderstanding me if you feel that I meant that I can do anything to save myself. My story, and the statements I have made, have all pointed to the fact that we have to accept Christ and what He has for us in order to be saved and have eternal security. Anything else is vanity.

No no. I was addressing Ezekiel's definition of Eternal Security and his comment, not your's. Sorry...

[Guest shiloh357]

I actually agree with you post, however you obviously do not know what Eternal Security teaches, it teaches that you cannot of your free will walk away from God. That is a false teaching.

Actually, that is a value that YOU are assigning to it. I have noticed this about you and the way you approach other people's beliefs. You assign to values and motives to other's beliefs. You want to project on to other's positions the defining elements that want those positions possess. That is the only way you really have an argument. Like I said earlier, your entire platform rests on your incessent need to put the lie in others mouths and then argue against it.

Eternal Secuirty has nothing to do with the "free will" teaching. What you and many people do is confuse "Eternal Security" with "The Preservation of the Saints" (POS)which is a Calvinist teaching.

Eternal Security and POS are not the same in that POS is predicated on the Calvinist notion that God chose who would saved back in eternity past.

Eternal Security has nothing to do with free will or not having free will. It does not address the issue apostacy, but there is no one, myself included who believes that a person cannot apostasize from the faith. If it were not possible, the Bible would not warn against it.

The problem is that you are hung up the values and definitions YOU have applied to this teaching. Eternal Security simply means that once you are saved, you don't have to keep working for salvation. Salvation is secure in Christ, not in your works. Your works should be from a different motivation now that you are saved. If you think that by living a certain way, you are keeping or securing your salvation, then you are making yourself the Savior, not God. You have a very mixed up view where the value of your deeds are concerned. You cannot please God. The only person who ever pleased God was Jesus and you are saved through Him, not through your works.

[OneLight]

No no. I was addressing Ezekiel's definition of Eternal Security and his comment, not your's. Sorry...

Thanks Brother!

[Smalcald]

Really the whole debate is not very important.

If God is the one doing all of this, and I believe that He is, than this debate has no meaning. If you believe that someone can have faith and then turn their back on God and not have faith, fine, that person would still turn their back on God regardless of this doctrine. If you believe that once someone is "saved" (whatever that means to you), and nothing can keep them from heaven, fine, that still would not change how someone acted, because if they acted in rebellion against God until they died, the response would be that they were never "really" saved.

The whole thing has no real impact on our faith. IT is not even really a doctrine. There is no Christian belief that says sin and have fun you are fine, I don't know any Churches that teach that including once that would say that they are OSAS.

[traveller]

No one has ever said God will turn from us, but OSAS teaches that He will not allow us to turn from Him, this is a false teaching.

let it rest dude. I have been on this forum for something like 6 months and this is the 5th mega thread on this topic. How many times are you going to beat the poor dead horse?

Don't mess with my horse

[Guest shiloh357]

ok now i'm a little confused as to the difference between es and osas. do they not both mean that once you have become a child of God you remain a child of God?

Yes, but the problem is that one of them is not a doctrine. OSAS is a made up doctrine by those who oppose Eternal Security. It is moniker they made up based upon their lack of understanding of Eternal Security. Those of us who believe in Eternal Security do not teach, as we are accused of, that you can simply go out and sin as much as you want and its all okay 'cause your saved.

People like Ezekiel33 are dishonest about what we teach. He assigns values to our beliefs so that he has something to shoot down.

Eternal Security is the belief that Jesus is Salvation and that salvation is secured in Him, not by what you do. You don't have live in fear that your next sin will send you to hell.

No human being in all Scripture ever went to hell for what they did. Hell is not punishment God inflicts for what you do. Hell is the consequence for choosing continued separation from God. Hell is the end result of saying no to God. If anything it is a self-inflicted punishment.

Even after a person is saved, the stain of Adam's sin is not eradicated, meaning that your works no matter how holy they appear to you are still unacceptable to God. Sin will not be eradicated from us until receive our sinless glorified bodies.

The idea that the motivation for living a holy life is to secure salvation is bogus doctrine on the grounds that you cannot live good enough to secure your salvation. Even if you did not commit a single sin from the day you are saved, your good works are still stained, still tainted and thus unacceptable before God and are not effecacious to securing your salvation.

The biblical motivation for good works is not to secure salvation. You cannot possibly do that anyway. The motivation is first of all gratitude and secondly to glorify God in the sight of men.

What Ezekiel is teaching is that Jesus gets you "in the door." but you have to keep yourself in the room via good works. Salvation from that standpoint ceases to be an act of God's grace, and becomes the result of human achievement. Instead of being a free gift as the Bible says, it becomes a reward that you have to work for to earn or deserve. It is actually very humanistic, as it makes man and not God, the Savior.

[Massorite]

It was not refuted, you can argue against truth but you can never refute it. I have have given no less that 15 to 20 passages of scripture that shows that invalidity of the OSAS doctrine, but some people will believe whatever they want to believe regardless of what God says.

and people have given 15-20 verses supporting it. You will believe whatever they want to believe regardless of what God says.

Anybody can refute anything just for the sake of doing it. Oh well and be blessed that is what I say.

[Massorite]

Anybody can refute anything just for the sake of doing it. Oh well and be blessed that is what I say.

not for the sake just doing it, but to present the other side. I know it may be a shock to you, but not everyone agrees with your view on everything.

No need to be smart here. As I said "Some people will refute,dispute or just plan argue about something just for the sake of it. I don't expect anybody to agree or disagree with me because it is not me or my views that I am talking about when I post here. When I post here I try to do the best that I can to post exactly as scripture says it is. Am I wrong at times? Yes! Am I right at times? Yes! Am I perfect? NO!

But throwing in the word shocked really was tastless and uncalled for. When I spoke that statment it was a general statement not meant to insult anybody. Unless of course you feel guilty.

[Smalcald]

What difference does it make? No one accepted Church, no doctrine, no accepted teaching authority, no accepted leaders, no Creeds, who is to say who is right or wrong anyway? Obviously the bible read individually by individual believers by itself is not enough to answer these debates and questions.