Is OSAS true

[Massorite]

I can tell by your post that you are a believer in OSAS. Which causes you to adjust scripture accordingly.

Could we not say about you that since you are a believer in non-secure salvation that it causes you to adjust scripture accordingly?

No! The whole concept of studing the bible is to learn or interprete what it says without twisting or adjusting what it is saying. Am I perfect? No! Do I make mistakes? Yes!

If you find that I have adjusted scripture to fit what I want to belief rather the what the bible is actually saying you are welcome to call me on it. With scripture to back your self up. Like I did with larryt. Otherwise you would be wasting your time.

To say that the verse was not talking about the fact that Jesus could blot out a name from the book of life when the verse clearly said so is just plain wrong. And if the verse was not talking about how Jesus could blot out a name then why did He say He wouldn't do it. Which means that He could and would blot out a name under certain surcumstances.

To say that Jesus was only talking to the saved is called "exclusionism" and none of the new testament is talking to the saved only. If anything it is talking to the lost far more then the believers because Jesus already has us.

To suggest that just because a person believes a certain way means that he/she is ajusting scripture puts dougt on all who preach and teach the word. The question is not "Am I adjusting scripture to fit my beliefs" the question should be "Do my beliefs line up with scripture"?

Always go back to the word of God and be honest to ourselves about what the bible is or is not saying and we will always be better for it.

If it is not written in the bible it does not exist.

Be Blessed my brother.

[godrulz]

seems to me that 'open theism' is putting God down on our level. we cannot change the past, and therefore neither can God (which He can, because He's God and He can do whatever He wants) we cannot know the future, so neither can God. we cannot exist in both the past and the present, so God is not capable of doing it, either.

we all tend to put God in a box in different ways at different times. but to say that something makes no sense to me and i cannot understand it or am not capable of doing it, and because of this God can't either, is the ultimate box. they're saying that since it's not in my realm of comprehension, it simply cannot exist.

i'm sure people who believe in this...whatever it is...would deny that's what they're doing. but from what i've seen so far, the only argument is basically, "it can't be." there is no "can't" when it comes to God. (and i do mean that as an absolute) it's all just kind of boggling my mind!

The past is fixed and unchangeable, even for God. There is no biblical or logical argument to counter this self-evident truth. Using your logic, God can create square circles and married bachelors despite the logical contradiction and absurdity of this. Even atheists admit that if there is an omnipotent God, He could not do logically absurd things. 2+2= 4, not 5, even for God.

It is not humanizing God nor deifying man to say that some things are the same for us and God. There is objective reality. Using your logic, we can say that God is Yoda or Captain Kirk because He can do anything.

God can do anything doable and know anything knowable. There are some things inherently undoable and unknowable even for an omnipotent, omniscient being. To deny that God cannot create a rock too heavy to lift (most secular and Christian thinkers agree this is a logical contradiction, not a possibility for an omnipotent being) or know where Alice in Wonderland is right now is NOT a limitation on God/omnipotence/omniscience.

We differ as to the possible objects of certain knowledge, not whether God knows all that is knowable (He does).

Just because you have not wrestled with the detailed arguments for and and against does not mean the evidence does not exist beyond your understanding.

Tradition is not always truth. None of us know everything, but we should be teachable. We are all ignorant of various things, so it is arrogant to assume we have all the answers opn any given topic.

[Shiloh62]

Is Once Saved Always Saved true.

I know that my only hope is Jesus. I know that salvation can come by no other way.

But can I lose it.

If my life doesn't produce good fruit?

Will Christ reject me if I don't forgive my fellow brother for wronging me.

I was born again at 22. I truely believe that when I asked him to be my Lord and saved me, that I meant it, every word.

What if when I asking him to be my Lord and Savior, the answer was no.

I have so many question and would like to hear your thoughts of both sides of the coin.

Is Once Saved Always Saved, true or not.

At one time, I had the same fears as you. Christ doesn't change His mind like we do though; if you asked Him to be your saviour, He isn't going to leave you-He might be dissapointed that you don't forgive your brother, but He won't reject you.

[Shiloh62]

Do you think I am saved, if I bare no good fruit.

Maybe I am afraid of burning and who wouldn't want a better life after this one,

So I have to work for it

It's not enough to ask Jesus for it?

Salvation is not based on the fruit you bear. Its based on your acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

[Shiloh62]

Do you think I am saved, if I bare no good fruit.

Maybe I am afraid of burning and who wouldn't want a better life after this one,

So I have to work for it

It's not enough to ask Jesus for it?

Salvation is not based on the fruit you bear. Its based on your acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wow! Thank God we're not trees!

[Guest shiloh357]

Massorite,

To say that the verse was not talking about the fact that Jesus could blot out a name from the book of life when the verse clearly said so is just plain wrong. And if the verse was not talking about how Jesus could blot out a name then why did He say He wouldn't do it. Which means that He could and would blot out a name under certain surcumstances.

Wrong. What the verses says is:

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(Revelation 3:5)

This promise is for the person who "overcomes." So begging the question, how does one "overcome?" The answer is found in 1John:

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

(1 John 5:4)

To "overcome" means to be born again. Jesus was saying, "He who is born of God (receives Jesus as Savior) shall be clothed in white raimant and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life..."

It is promise to those are saved that they will not be blotted out. Our name is there, permanently secure because we have overcome, which is simply another way of saying, we have been born again by grace through faith alone in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

Do you think I am saved, if I bare no good fruit.

Maybe I am afraid of burning and who wouldn't want a better life after this one,

So I have to work for it

It's not enough to ask Jesus for it?

Salvation is not based on the fruit you bear. Its based on your acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

[Shiloh62]

Massorite,

To say that the verse was not talking about the fact that Jesus could blot out a name from the book of life when the verse clearly said so is just plain wrong. And if the verse was not talking about how Jesus could blot out a name then why did He say He wouldn't do it. Which means that He could and would blot out a name under certain surcumstances.

Wrong. What the verses says is:

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(Revelation 3:5)

This promise is for the person who "overcomes." So begging the question, how does one "overcome?" The answer is found in 1John:

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

(1 John 5:4)

To "overcome" means to be born again. Jesus was saying, "He who is born of God (receives Jesus as Savior) shall be clothed in white raimant and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life..."

It is promise to those are saved that they will not be blotted out. Our name is there, permanently secure because we have overcome, which is simply another way of saying, we have been born again by grace through faith alone in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

YES! Thank you Shiloh357!

[Guest shiloh357]

Do you think I am saved, if I bare no good fruit.

Maybe I am afraid of burning and who wouldn't want a better life after this one,

So I have to work for it

It's not enough to ask Jesus for it?

Salvation is not based on the fruit you bear. Its based on your acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wow! Thank God we're not trees!

Matthew 7:19 is talking about false prophets. Starting all the way back up in verse 15, the metaphor of the good and bad trees was used by Jesus to discuss false prophets, not Christans. Jesus is talking about the demise of the false prophets who deceive people into thinking they are speaking or God. They will be cast into the fire.

[Ovedya]

Lewis denied being a theologian. He was a professor of mythology, etc., not theology.

Lewis never denied being a theologian, he just rejected the notion that he was a formal theologian. That's why he is generally considered a "lay theologian." He was a professor of English and literature, not mythology.

Not that it matters, other than the fact that your self-presentation as an authority is severely damaged by how little you actually know of a man you openly criticize.

You really should be careful in making absolute statement with regard to the ontology of God. Remember that you are attempting to quantify in absolute terms a being that, by definition, is far above the grasp of human comprehension. Even as Job said, "Can you find out the depths of God? Can you find out the limit of the almighty?"