The Trinity

[Guest idied2]

GOD is the SPIRIT. CHRIST is the body. ONE SPIRIT. ONE BODY. ONE nature.

All are ONE

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

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[Guest idied2]

The HOLY SPIRIT is GODS SPIRIT

. Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

The HOLY SPIRIT is GOD.

Joh 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

GOD is the FATHER.

Ga 1:3

Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

2Jo 1:3

Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

JESUS CHRIST is the FATHER.

John 14

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

All are ONE and the same. ONE person ONE SPIRIT. ONE nature.

Mr 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Zec 14:9

And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-- "The Lord is one,"* And His name one

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[other one]

you are saying that they all three are god

define the word god.

The old testament uses the word elohiym for the God that wrote the ten commandments. It also uses elohiym for the golden calf when the israelites ask aaron to make them a god to go before them... It also uses elohiym for baal and several other gods.

I can go into the NT and do the words and they will have the same outcome.

So saying the Father is God is true. Your simply saying that the father is deity.

So saying Christ is god is true. your simply saying that Jesus is deity.

So saying the Spirit is God is true. Your simply saying that the Spirit is diety.

On and on the discussion can go and end up in the same place. God doesn't always equal god. So the Father doesn't necessairly equal Jesus. They are both deity, however the Father is "The Deity". All things come from Him, Jesus is deity all things camethrough Him the Son

If they were the same and equal and omni(everything) then why is it that only the Father knows when Jesus will return. Neither Christ, the angels nor the Spirit knows. If they are all the same why is this???

If they are the same and omni(everything) then when the Spirit came why does he tell us only what He hears and not instruct us on His own authority. I simply don't understand why....

When Jesus conqures all and defeats death after his return why will he be subject to the Father if they are the same thing. It makes too many bible verses senseless if they are all the same.

I just can't accept that concept and justify all the other verses, and to me it is important to justify these other verses.

Sam

Edited July 11, 2004 by other one

[BobTriez]

you are saying that they all three are god

define the word god.

Sam, I have to ask you this ok ? Why do you keep dwelling on your question "define the word 'God' " ? While the Bible mentions other gods ( little g ) that we are not to worship, the whole of the Bible is written about God - THE One and Only God....the God who created everything.

When I speak of God, that is who I am referring to....not some false god ( anything can be a god if you worship it, that doesn't make it real ), but the ONLY Living God - for there is only one living God.

So, a shorter definition of "God" to you ( as asked earlier ) would be simply the one & only living God....I could care less about any of the others. So next time I refer to God, you know whom I am speaking of. The God who has existed since eternity....the God who says "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:

[other one]

Because people say that all three make up one "God". I can not understand what you mean by them all being one God. The crux of the problem of either buying into the trinity the way it is traditionally written or not is the understanding of how three different things can be one and the same God.

For me that is the begining problem of the doctrine of the Trinity. I can't reconcile the scripture for the three to be one and the same and when people try and describe it they simply say that all three are God and that makes no sense to me at all.

Others say it is some mystery and not possible for humans to understand and I just don't buy that either. I am not trying to convince anyone else of anything, I am just trying to find some way that I can find some understanding of how all three can be one God when so many scriptures don't read that way, and that's why I am interested in the term God.

You origionally ask me if I believed that Jesus was God. I believe he is deity but is not our one and only God. That would be the Father. Jesus is my Lord and that is what he ask me to profess. The Father who is "The God", in my understanding, raised Him from the dead.

I just can't put them both under the same term "God" and say that they are one and the same, or overall equal in athority.

That's all I am trying to get across; just sharing my thoughts and studies and trying to reconcile some loose ends.

Sam

[BobTriez]

You origionally ask me if I believed that Jesus was God. I believe he is deity but is not our one and only God. That would be the Father. Jesus is my Lord and that is what he ask me to profess. The Father who is "The God", in my understanding, raised Him from the dead.

So by this statement, do you believe there is more than one God ? You say the Father is God, and also say that Jesus is deity making Him God but not "the God" yet you don't believe they are one ? So by your statement there is more than one God ?

I'm not trying to be hard, I'm trying understand what you believe so I ( or others ) can help you figure out what it meant by a "Triune God".

Serving Him,

Bob

[jmwhalen]

1. I will not add much more to what has already been excellently documented on this post as to the clear teaching of scriptures that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. He is, and He claimed this was so. He is(present tense) also a man. The "kinsman redeemer" concept explains why this is so. In Genesis, "The seed Plot of the Holy Bible", we have the "beginning" of 7(representing completion, perfection) promises/reqirements of this redeemer. The redeemer would

1.be from the human race-Gen. 3:15=seed of a woman(and virgin birth-only a male has a seed)

2. be from a certain section of the human race-Gen. 9:26=Shem

3. be from a certain nation of that section-Gen. 12:1-3=Hebrew

4. be from a certain tribe of that Hebrew nation-Gen. 49:10=Judah

5. be from a certain family of that tribe-2 Sam. 7:16=David

6. be of a certain member of that family-Is. 7:14=Mary

7. be from a certain village belonging to that family member-Micah 5:2-Bethlehem Ephratah(which means "house of bread/fruitful, grow, increase")

According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption:

1. Redeemer must be a near kinsman(Lev. 25:25-"...any of his kin....). The Lord Jesus Christ became a MAN, taking on human form. Thus,

"...THE MAN CHRIST JESUS(emphasis mine)....." 2 Tim. 2:5

"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN(emphasis mine) over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did WORSHIP(emphasis mine), and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15

"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:9

"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN(emphasis mine) clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude." Daniel 10:5,6

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Rev. 1:13-15

This is "the Alpha and the Omega"=God, and MAN, none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

This is Paul's point-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowlege Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang" and the unsaved), all will acknowlegde that He is God, as it is written:

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10,11

2.Redeemer must be able to redeem-must be able to pay the whole price of redemption by yourself. The satisfactory price was the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 1:18,19, Romans 3:24,25..............).

3.The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21-see also 1 John 3:5, 1 Peter 2:22, Hebrews 4:15, John 8:46, Exodus 12:5="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT.

4. The redeemer must be willing-must be voluntary:

*"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD." Leviticus 1:3

* Genesis 22:6 "...they went both of them together..... A "picture"/type of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily walking together.

And notice in the Genesis 22 account that Isaac, as a type of Christ, was old enough to carry wood(a picture of the cross) up the mountain. This infers that he was probably at least in his teen years, maybe older. It would have been very unlikely that Abraham, in his advanced years, could have "forced" Isaac onto the altar. Thus, Isaac voluntarily, in faith, offered himself as the sacrifice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ did, as it is written:

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit OFFERED HIMSELF(emphasis mine)f without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:14

2. Wayne made an excellent point on the Joshua 5:13-15 passsage. You may also want to review "the angel of the LORD" passages, which clearly points to the LORD(God the Father) and the "angel of the LORD" as separate "persons", and yet the angel of the LORD, which is the pre-incarnation person of the Lord Jesus Christ, both as diety. Example:

"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman..." Judges 13:3

"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A MAN(emphasis mine) of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name..." Judges 13:6

"For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and FELL ON THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND(emphasis mine).

But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN GOD(emphasis mine)." Judges 13: 20-22

In Christ,

John Whalen

[WayneB]

Excellent teaching John. You clearly show the basic requirements for redemption and how Jesus Christ is the ONLY person who fills those requirements for the sins of ALL men everywhere. PRAISE HIS Name!

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Because people say that all three make up one "God".

Edited July 12, 2004 by Jedi4Yahweh

[whatsitmean]

According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal