loosing salvation

[Arthur Durnan]

So if WE can be eternally lost after having received everlasting life, then JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF will finally be lost TOO because He dwells within each truly born-again Christian believer!! Then what a lugubrious & plodding NON-eternal "everlasting" relationship it will turn out to have been, yes? Saved today, lost tomorrow, "re-saved", then "re-lost", then...........I love it, Oh, I love it, but will all this play in Peoria?

[Rhonda Lou]

Calvinism/TULIP is deterministic/decretal/monergistic. POTS makes sense in the system, but the problem is a negation of genuine free will (LFW) in favor of compatibilism.

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Son-Robert-Shank/dp/1556610912

I do not want to interrupt or change this thread, so I ask you to either send me a personal message, or start another thread, but I've never heard of "POTS". What is that? Just curious.

Rhonda

[canuckamuck]

Your previous post was great Rhonda. You really cut to the core of the issue for me.

Thanks

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

So if WE can be eternally lost after having received everlasting life, then JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF will finally be lost TOO because He dwells within each truly born-again Christian believer!! Then what a lugubrious & plodding NON-eternal "everlasting" relationship it will turn out to have been, yes? Saved today, lost tomorrow, "re-saved", then "re-lost", then...........I love it, Oh, I love it, but will all this play in Peoria?

Just as we deal with our children individually, God deals with His children individually.

We teach our children with the expectation that they will learn, grow, and mature.

As they grow we expect them to take on more responsibility according to their own

level of maturity, and as they take on more responsibility they are given more privileges.

When their responsibilities are not upheld their privileges are suspended, but our love for them is not.

We discipline them appropriately, but we do not disown them and kick them out of the family.

[Rhonda Lou]

Your previous post was great Rhonda. You really cut to the core of the issue for me.

Thanks

I'm glad that God was able to use me to help you.

Rhonda

[OneLight]

So if WE can be eternally lost after having received everlasting life, then JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF will finally be lost TOO because He dwells within each truly born-again Christian believer!! Then what a lugubrious & plodding NON-eternal "everlasting" relationship it will turn out to have been, yes? Saved today, lost tomorrow, "re-saved", then "re-lost", then...........I love it, Oh, I love it, but will all this play in Peoria?

Just as we deal with our children individually, God deals with His children individually.

We teach our children with the expectation that they will learn, grow, and mature.

As they grow we expect them to take on more responsibility according to their own

level of maturity, and as they take on more responsibility they are given more privileges.

When their responsibilities are not upheld their privileges are suspended, but our love for them is not.

We discipline them appropriately, but we do not disown them and kick them out of the family.

You are absolutely right. God will never kick us out of His family. Maybe you can help me understand something that is missing here. What if the child leaves and never returns, disowning the family and their name, forsaking his birthrights as if there was no family, as in being dead to him? Will the parents then force their will on the one who says they are dead to him?

You see, every example that has been given so far points to those who have not completely turned from Christ. I have not read in any of the posts where anyone has, in their heart, completely believed that there is no God. Even in my backslidden years, I knew God was real, but I just didn't want to obey, but rather, fulfill the desires of my flesh. Yet, there are those who once were His, that have said in their heart that there is no God. People just don't want to believe that this can happen, where I do. The reason is, if it is true, then it can happen to them and they are not willing to accept this possibility.

[Guest man]

You see, every example that has been given so far points to those who have not completely turned from Christ. I have not read in any of the posts where anyone has, in their heart, completely believed that there is no God. Even in my backslidden years, I knew God was real, but I just didn't want to obey, but rather, fulfill the desires of my flesh. Yet, there are those who once were His, that have said in their heart that there is no God. People just don't want to believe that this can happen, where I do. The reason is, if it is true, then it can happen to them and they are not willing to accept this possibility.

If anyone needs proof of that, all they need to do is go to The Outer Court. There are people who pass through there the all time stating, "I once believed but now I know it was a lie".

And as for parents disowning their children, it happens all the time. Just because we can't fathom the thought of a parent breaking off all ties with their child, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

You see, every example that has been given so far points to those who have not completely turned from Christ. I have not read in any of the posts where anyone has, in their heart, completely believed that there is no God. Even in my backslidden years, I knew God was real, but I just didn't want to obey, but rather, fulfill the desires of my flesh. Yet, there are those who once were His, that have said in their heart that there is no God. People just don't want to believe that this can happen, where I do. The reason is, if it is true, then it can happen to them and they are not willing to accept this possibility.

If anyone needs proof of that, all they need to do is go to The Outer Court. There are people who pass through there the all time stating, "I once believed but now I know it was a lie".

And as for parents disowning their children, it happens all the time. Just because we can't fathom the thought of a parent breaking off all ties with their child, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

True . . . parents disown their children, but not if they truly love them with the love of God.

True love from God does not disown His own.

[OneLight]

You see, every example that has been given so far points to those who have not completely turned from Christ. I have not read in any of the posts where anyone has, in their heart, completely believed that there is no God. Even in my backslidden years, I knew God was real, but I just didn't want to obey, but rather, fulfill the desires of my flesh. Yet, there are those who once were His, that have said in their heart that there is no God. People just don't want to believe that this can happen, where I do. The reason is, if it is true, then it can happen to them and they are not willing to accept this possibility.

If anyone needs proof of that, all they need to do is go to The Outer Court. There are people who pass through there the all time stating, "I once believed but now I know it was a lie".

And as for parents disowning their children, it happens all the time. Just because we can't fathom the thought of a parent breaking off all ties with their child, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

True . . . parents disown their children, but not if they truly love them with the love of God.

True love from God does not disown His own.

Again, there is scripture were we are told that names will be removed from the Book of Life. Is this not God doing so?

[godrulz]

Calvinism/TULIP is deterministic/decretal/monergistic. POTS makes sense in the system, but the problem is a negation of genuine free will (LFW) in favor of compatibilism.

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Son-Robert-Shank/dp/1556610912

I do not want to interrupt or change this thread, so I ask you to either send me a personal message, or start another thread, but I've never heard of "POTS". What is that? Just curious.

Rhonda

It is relevant for others. OSAS= once saved always saved, unconditionally. No matter what, including whatever failing or lack of faith, the person is still saved if they once were.

POTS= Calvinism= perseverance of the saints. It is not identical, but assumes that God preserves those He calls/elects unconditionally. He makes it possible for them to persevere. If they do not persevere to the end, it is assumed they were never truly elect or saved to begin with.

They are essentially the same in my mind, but a Calvinist will object and be more precise within their deterministic view.