precepts Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 129 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 48 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/10/1968 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin? Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country. 2Sa 5:13 And David took [him] more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David. Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: 1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan. 1Ch 2:46 And Ephah, Caleb's concubine, bare Haran, and Moza, and Gazez: and Haran begat Gazez. 1Ch 7:14 The sons of Manasseh; Ashriel, whom she bare: ([but] his concubine the Aramitess bare Machir the father of Gilead: 2Ch 11:21 And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.) Food for thought. Edited July 30, 2009 by precepts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Horn Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 178 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 Paul's answer: Ro 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. Ro 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. JB http://inhisword.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin? Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country. 2Sa 5:13 And David took [him] more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David. Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: 1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan. 1Ch 2:46 And Ephah, Caleb's concubine, bare Haran, and Moza, and Gazez: and Haran begat Gazez. 1Ch 7:14 The sons of Manasseh; Ashriel, whom she bare: ([but] his concubine the Aramitess bare Machir the father of Gilead: 2Ch 11:21 And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.) Food for thought. I'm not sure of the answer but I AM sure that yellow type is nearly invisible........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 30, 2009 How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin? Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country. 2Sa 5:13 And David took [him] more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David. Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: 1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan. 1Ch 2:46 And Ephah, Caleb's concubine, bare Haran, and Moza, and Gazez: and Haran begat Gazez. 1Ch 7:14 The sons of Manasseh; Ashriel, whom she bare: ([but] his concubine the Aramitess bare Machir the father of Gilead: 2Ch 11:21 And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.) Food for thought. It was not considered " unmarital sex", the term concubine and wife are used interchangeably. In those ancient times, before the law, multiple wives were permitted, if you could afford them,i.e., support them. Concubines were not prostitutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 The word concubine simply means a slave wife. The couple are married, but she was purchased first. Look at the story of the Levite and his concubine in Judges. At one point, he is identified as the woman's husband.Jdg 19:1 And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah. Jdg 20:4 And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge. Also, Abraham married Keturah after the death of his wife Sarah, but later in Scripture, Keturah is called Abraham's concubine.Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. 1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan. And then there is Bilhah:Gen 29:29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid. Gen 30:4 And she [Rachel] gave him [her husband Jacob] Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her. Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard it. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin? Food for thought. Short and sweet ... yes, sex out of wedlock is sin. When a church discusses this, they have to discuss it within the context, history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precepts Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 129 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 48 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/10/1968 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) JB's Paul's answer: Ro 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. Ro 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Paul's referring to the whole levitical law of shedding blood for sin. Hunter's It was not considered " unmarital sex", the term concubine and wife are used interchangeably. In those ancient times, before the law, multiple wives were permitted, if you could afford them,i.e., support them. Concubines were not prostitutes. Before what law? Verses please. Why do you think they're used interchangeably if they mean the same, why would the interpretors use two different words to define the same situation? Sheya's The word concubine simply means a slave wife. The couple are married, but she was purchased first.References, please. Blue Letter Bible dictionary defines concubines as unworthy of marriage because of class. Concubines were/are wives without the classification, title, legal documentation of a wife according to the mosiac laws. They don't have the same rights as a wife. Shey's Look at the story of the Levite and his concubine in Judges. At one point, he is identified as the woman's husband. Jdg 19:1 And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah. Jdg 20:4 And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge. Once again, a wife without the legal documentations and rights as a wife. Shey's Also, Abraham married Keturah after the death of his wife Sarah,Verses please. Shey's but later in Scripture, Keturah is called Abraham's concubine. Because she was, she was of a lower class than a jewish wife. Shey's Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. Took to wife, a concubine, of a lower class, possibly because she was bought or because she wasn't jewish. Shey's 1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan. She was of a lower class. Shey's And then there is Bilhah: Gen 29:29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid. Gen 30:4 And she [Rachel] gave him [her husband Jacob] Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her. Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard it. Unmarried sex with a concubine is not a sin, in other words, shacking up. Onelight's Short and sweet ... yes, sex out of wedlock is sin. When a church discusses this, they have to discuss it within the context, history. I disagree. Edited July 30, 2009 by precepts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 30, 2009 precepts to answer your question; What law............the 10 commandments and most of the book of Leviticus...I'm sure you are familiar with these. Concubine and wife are used interchangeably because the second, third, fourth and so on wives did not have inheritance rights nor did any of the children from these marriages. Only the first wife and children received inheritance. But these marriages were all legal at the time and there was legal paperwork, so any physical union was not outside of the marriage. You can verify this information in most of the many commentaries written by biblical scholars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 In the Bible, concubines were always associated with the wealth of the man(husband). The more mouths to feed (principal wives/concubines/offspring) the more money. Status/power/wealth - the building up of ones heritage. Disharmony and unrest was found in situations like this though, between "rival" wives, rival sons etc. You just have to look at history even outside of the Bible to see this truth. AND why would the Church interperet concubines any different to what the Bible says? What would be the point? If you are thinking of religions such as Mormonism, you just have to look at their doctrine as a whole and see how far removed from the truth they are to recognise their teachings are of men and not of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 How do the churches explain concubines in the context of fornication? Is unmarital sex really a sin? Here is a post of mine on a polygamy thread were I address the subject there. I felt it was perhaps too much to repost here. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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