The Shack

[Butch4HIM]

First, I should state where I am coming from. My reading emphasis is Christian life and books which present sound doctrine (based on historic Christian faith). It is very rare for me to read Christian fiction or Christian fables. (In fact, I have never read Christian fiction.) Pilgrim

[BlindSeeker]

But of course God has shown Himself as a human being it is also part of His nature, God is and was Jesus. To understand the Trinity we must realize that Jesus is God, and that Jesus walked on this earth as a man.

People did speak directly to God, people ate with God, people shared fellowship with God, people cried on God's literal shoulder, people touched God and hugged Him.

The Holy Spirit is God, the Holy Spirit is inside of our literal bodies, the Holy Spirit speaks to us.

So depicting God speaking to someone in some shape or form is not a problem.

Not when God does it.

I guess the whole "Mother God" movement out there is benign as well . . .

Well scripture is scripture and movements to change that are wrong. But yeah I would agree that the whole Mother God movement IS a problem, for example it probably has played into the ordination of women as ministers which is against scripture.

But this is a book of fiction which does not advocate that God is a women, in fact it speaks of the importance of us understanding God as a Father.

Gandhi had some very good truths to share as well . . . however, those tid-bits were not the problem with Gandhi either.

I said it earlier and will say it again, "Subtle is the departure from the truth and the greatest lie is still the one with the most facts (truth) in it.

[Smalcald]

I have no problem reading Ghandi either.

I don't know, I mean I know for a fact my congregation would totally disagree theologically with this guy on some big issues, just as they would with the Left Behind series. But I liked both the Left Behind series and the Shack. The Shack is better written than the left behind series but still I liked both.

But if we are so immature as to not be able to read ANYTHING because it might somehow hurt us with bad doctrine than I think we are in big trouble. If a book claims to be doctrine or bible commentary or is making a truth claim about our faith, then I totally agree we should stand up really strongly. But a work of fiction, I don't know, most fiction when it deals with God is wrong theologically on many levels. Just as Ghandi was wrong theologically on most things, but still worth reading.

[BlindSeeker]

I have no problem reading Ghandi either.

Really?

This is one of them WWJD moments. I mean here is a guy who embraced and taught the principle teachings of Christ, but rejected the deity of Him?

I can just see Jesus handing of a book about Gandhi and his teachings to John saying, "Hey John, read this. This guys really right on about a lot of stuff . . . really enjoyed it Myself."

I don't know, I mean I know for a fact my congregation would totally disagree theologically with this guy on some big issues, just as they would with the Left Behind series. But I liked both the Left Behind series and the Shack. The Shack is better written than the left behind series but still I liked both.

See above . . .

But if we are so immature as to not be able to read ANYTHING because it might somehow hurt us with bad doctrine than I think we are in big trouble.

See, the problem is not everyone is on your level or mine. Why do you think Christianity is so fragmented? Is it not that the Devil himself has come as an angel of like and his ministers as ministers of righteousness? Isn't that what the scriptures say?

And what do you think is that flood that came out of the serpent's mouth where he tries to carry the woman away? (Rev 12:15). Is it not a flood of polluted teachings whereby he tries to keep God

[Smalcald]

Give me break.

Tool of satan?

How about Faulkner or Joyce or Hemmingway? I guess since they are not theologically correct in your view they would be tools of Satan?

Anti-intellectualism will never help our faith and we can never control what is written or produced by artists and writers.

How about math? Should we let our kids study physics?

Sure if someone claims that this is Christianity and this is the Way and it is doctrinally wrong yes we should oppose that.

But Ghandi was an historical figure who was important, I don't look to him for my salvation anymore than I would look to Thomas Jefferson or Ronald Reagan for my salvation (both of whom were not theologically correct in any number of things they said-tools of satan?) but I would look at what they say.

But we are way off track now. Yeah I don't fully agree with how things are portrayed in the Shack, but it is good book and I do think it is a very positive book for Christians to read.

It is not a tool of satan. Besides since none of us nor most Evangelicals and Protestants in general can agree on doctrine who is to say what is right or wrong in the details anyway?

[Botz]

IMO...The two main points of note about the Shack, were:-

1) The way in which the author utilised the Characters of Papa, Saraya and Jesus to demonstrate what he found to be a biblical understanding of the relationship and fellowship of G-d from all eternity.

When the book was given to me by a good friend, and someone said that in the pages the Father was displayed as a large Southern Negro woman...I was a little bemused, and it triggered off some healthy scepticism....however within a short time of reading it, I did not have a problem, and could see quite clearly what the author was attempting to communicate, and I thought he did it very well. The whole time it reminded me of John Chapters 14-16, and at no time did I feel I was getting suckered into something that went against the clear teaching of G-ds word.

2) The subject matter was poignant, thoughtful, provoking, realistic and ultimately triumphant, where the main character Mack was able to finally come to terms with the violent sexual murder of his dear little daughter through dialogue with G-d in all His aspects, and confront his deepest hurts, unbelievable pain and justifiable anger....not through some wishy-washy New Age understanding....not though acknowledging the panacea of Univeralism...but by being touched and changed by the love of G-d, and finding forgiveness for himself and in himself when before it would have seemed inconceivable.

The idea that the book somehow violates the third commandment is just fanciful.

The idea that people who read the book and enjoy/find something good within its pages, are compromising their faith and lacking in discernment verges on the sort of fundamentalist paranoia rife in hard-line Moslem extremism...and to me is reminiscent of the 'thought police' and drips with condemnation.

I don't endorse everything within the pages of the Shack....but I think anyone who squeezes from its pages some sort of endorsement for calling G-d female...is verging on a Loony Tunes experience and totally unbiblical...and those people who on the back of this book now refer to the Father as 'Papa' do not do themselves any favours in the credibility stakes.

There will always be a contingent of people who will be affected adversely by the content of a book like this...it is a bit like a cult using the Bible for their own means....and some people will pick up on things that the author never really intended as being a real depiction of what he was trying to handle.

It is a book that will challenge rigid and starchy religious conformity, and will definately not appeal to those who have the need to dot every i and cross every t....both theirs and other peoples....which is fine, don't read it...but please don't presume to know what is good for everyone else.

[BlindSeeker]

Give me break.

Tool of satan?

How about Faulkner or Joyce or Hemmingway? I guess since they are not theologically correct in your view they would be tools of Satan?

Anti-intellectualism will never help our faith and we can never control what is written or produced by artists and writers.

How about math? Should we let our kids study physics?

Sure if someone claims that this is Christianity and this is the Way and it is doctrinally wrong yes we should oppose that.

But Ghandi was an historical figure who was important, I don't look to him for my salvation anymore than I would look to Thomas Jefferson or Ronald Reagan for my salvation (both of whom were not theologically correct in any number of things they said-tools of satan?) but I would look at what they say.

But we are way off track now. Yeah I don't fully agree with how things are portrayed in the Shack, but it is good book and I do think it is a very positive book for Christians to read.

It is not a tool of satan. Besides since none of us nor most Evangelicals and Protestants in general can agree on doctrine who is to say what is right or wrong in the details anyway?

No problem . . . I'll give you "a break."

I've stated my position and why, but to you it is all benign . . . so you'll endorse it anyway. So be it.

Besides, your last rebuttal really has me stumped.

Besides since none of us nor most Evangelicals and Protestants in general can agree on doctrine who is to say what is right or wrong in the details anyway?

That certainly settles it.

[Guest]

The

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:18

Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

Speaks

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 15:26

Of Jesus

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hebrews 10:7

Love, Your Brother Joe

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

James 3:17

[BlindSeeker]

All this controversy makes me want to read the book more. Just like when there was all that hoopla about The Last Temptation of Christ. I have criticism of how Jesus was portrayed in that but the overall theme was excellent.

Go ahead and read it then.

It kind of makes me think of when you warn a kid not to do something though . . . or like Romans 7:8 . . .

[alex73]

I agree with Eric's view also.

There is no advantage in Christians simply not reading ANYTHING because it might somehow tarnish their faith. Yet they spend all day watching the crap on TV.

This book is a positive work that I think will indeed work to bring many people to Christ. I mean we are arguing about its depiction of the Trinity in this instance, and all freaked out because one part of the Trinity presents itself as a women, however, the book goes on to say that the nature of God in the Trinity IS as a Father and male, God can show Himself however He chooses; but in this book at least it shows a Trinity, it seems to be the fashion today for Evangelicals to reject the Trinity as being too Catholic.

The coming apostasy which I now see invading the Evangelical Churches is a rejection of the Trinity, from that perspective this book is a very very good thing in fighting that heresy.

So odd to even think that the truth could be defended by an admitted work of fiction.

That alone seems to be a very dangerous exaltation . . .

><> ><> What is Fiction but the inner feelings/inspiration/experience of the writter????????????