Ohio gov. wants Rifqa Bary back with her family

[Axxman]

Well, I hope the other article addressed this for you - that she was concerned about the girl's life, as pastors they help people, and that she called a lawyer.

Yeah, thats for sure a different interview than they initially gave to the Orlando Sentinel. It appears that they are refining the story...which is natural. Thats a good lawyer doing his job. I still think they had more rational options...and definitely should have alerted the authorities (even anonymously) if they really felt her life was in danger. I do think its interesting that they went from "surprise" that the girl was even there...to admitting they help plan the escape...they contacted lawyers first...they contacted anti-muslim groups first..etc. I mean, you gotta admit their story has rapidly evolved into a nice little legal shell.

Hold - woah! That isn't what I said.

I said if her life was threatened - not if she was being abused. You do know the difference - right?

No, you are right...I was too vague. I said abuse or harm. "Harm" is too light a word and didn't convey the intent.

I just see a kind of double-standard in which Christians are all too willing to admit that many people who claim Christianity, and do evil, may not even be 'real' Christians...but they won't apply that same standard to Muslims. Muslims who do evil are "real" muslims...and muslims who do not do evil are weak or bad. Why can't muslims claim that those who do evil in the name of Islam are not 'real' muslims?

But what would constitute evidence for you? How could the police dig up words that were spoken and actions taken that were not recorded?

And if the father truly had threatened the life of his daughter, do you believe he'd be honest about it to the police? Or do you have info that states he was put through a lie detector test?

Well, evidence is a tricky thing. Either you have it, or you don't. Without evidence...you don't have a leg to stand on.

Fun? Do you believe I'm having fun?

I am deeply, deeply troubled by this. . . . so much so that a coworker tonight kept asking me what was wrong.

This is tough for me. Recent experience has taught me that my opinions have to take a backseat, to real-world distress. On the flip-side, I love these convo's and want to answer the good points you make in your posts. If I have to leave a convo every time somebody doesn't like my opinion then this thread would be left with conspiracy theories and people whose only knowledge of Islam comes from anti-muslim websites. I am not trying, in any way, to cause you distress. If I can take all the attacks and personal insults (not from you)...i hope you can hang in there while I express my opinions.

For what its worth...I was talking about it at work too, just to get people's opinions.

And this isn't about "good" Muslims vs "bad" Muslims. This is about a different world view.

What world view?

From the things I have heard reported, there's a difference between a "Christian" and someone who converted from Islam to something else. A Muslim turned Buddhist would be in just as much trouble.

Maybe in Iran, or in Saudi Arabia...but not necessarily in a suburb of Columbus.

Well, first of all we are talking about the Ohio Muslim population (did you hear about how huge that mosque is? ), not the Colorado nor Palestinian population of Muslims.

Second, why don't you ask these Muslims you hang with how they regard a Muslim who rejects Islam and converts to another religion?

It is a BIG mosque. I'm not sure what to tell you though. My church has 8000 members...does that make us more Christian? Extreme? Liberal? Or, does it just make us a more diverse community? How extreme can this place really be if they allow Jewish Rabbi's to speak in their mosque??

I checked that with Rabbi Misha Zinkow, of Temple Israel, who spoke at the Noor center earlier this year at an inter-faith gathering.

"Their presence in the community is a positive one,'' he said. "My interaction with the Muslim community has been very positive.''

I then asked the Rabbi if Columbus was a hotbed of Islamic extremism, another charge I frequently hear.

"I don't think I would echo those sentiments,'' he said. source

To address your second point...They feel the same way as you or I do. They want people to embrace Islam, and they are disappointed when they don't...or when they fall away. They don't sit around and plot their beheading.

[nebula]

Why can't muslims claim that those who do evil in the name of Islam are not 'real' muslims?

Do they?

[Axxman]

It seems that neither Rifqa or her parents are US citizens. Now that I found it, I see it everywhere...lol. Weird how that happens.

[Axxman]

Why can't muslims claim that those who do evil in the name of Islam are not 'real' muslims?

Do they?

Of course they do. They hate what extremism has done to them. They hate how people view them because of the actions of evil people.

[nebula]

So why don't they speak up more?

I mean, I'm not hearing anything about Muslims protesting or speaking out against terrorism, honor killings, etc.

[Scarletprayers]

There must be violence against women - Yemen Times

[Believer1997]

There must be violence against women - Yemen Times

Ohhhh... I get it now.... Muslim men have VALID reasons for abusing women.... O-kaaay. This just makes me so sick.

[Axxman]

There must be violence against women - Yemen Times

What does some op-ed in a third world country newspaper have to do with a suburb in Ohio? You can't post an extremist piece like this and apply it universally. That would be like someone posting a blog from the Westboro Baptist Church and trying to apply it universally to Christians. It simply doesn't work that way.

It should also go without saying that violence against women isn't exclusive to the Muslim community...in fact, you were recently involved in a thread in which you were more than willing to blame the church for the prevalence of violence against women.

[Axxman]

So why don't they speak up more?

I mean, I'm not hearing anything about Muslims protesting or speaking out against terrorism, honor killings, etc.

Well...they speak up plenty. On those rare occassions when they are heard, someone usually accuses them of lying to cover up their terrorist ties. There have been Fatwa's issued against muslim extremism from Muslim's all over the world.

There have been specific fatwa's against honor killings. Problem is..If a Muslim cleric issues a fatwa against something, it doesn't mean that everyone who hears it is going to do what he says. Same as a Christian church...just because a pastor preaches a sermon on 'Honoring your wife or marriage' doesn't mean that every guy that hears it suddenly becomes a perfect husband. The difference is, if the christian guy messes up we blame the individual...if the muslim guy messes up we blame his entire belief system and assume that every guy in that belief system is exactly the same.

[Miss Elly]

We are not an Islamic country. You can't compare Muslims in Iran to muslims in America...it is a totally different culture. You can't even compare a random act of muslim violence in America and claim all muslims are violent. It isn't fair when they do it to Christians (i.e. the George Tiller murder) and it isn't right to do it to any other religious group.

No, we are not an Islamic country thank God. But these people have islam in their hearts. Same devil, different country. Why do the parents want their daughter back so badly? Why don't you pray for the girl for God to have his will in the situation instead of defending the ungodly parents and slandering the caring minister and his wife? You don't REALLY know what is going on. But God does. Don't you think God wants the best for the girl? Then shut up and start praying.