Fez Posted October 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted October 8, 2009 fez I think we might worry about this issue of losing salvation too much. The key is where we are now in this moment. Right now this moment we are still alive and given that grace we have an opportunity for repentance and conversion and faith. Unless we are told that we are always saved if we have done xy or z, why repent if we have eternal security, why worry about having faith if we have eternal security, why worry about sin in our lives? Now a true Christian will concern themselves with all of these things, but someone who is not yet a believer but who is deluded into thinking they are a believer may not and this is the danger. This is my concern particularly when we rely on one time conversion experiences that are somehow supposed to seal our eternal fate forever. I have met many a 22 year old who claims they were saved at 13 at some bible camp or in their Church, and now believe they can drink and party for a while because they are "saved". This is the danger of this type of thinking. Yes I see where you are going and I partly agree with you, especially the last part! But thats the quick answer, I am juggling skype and worthy at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2009 I Believe that if you are TRULY a Child of God NOTHING can take you away from Him! He Is GOD! I agree! OneLight, to continue my train of thought on the Hebrews passage. As to Hebrews, were these people tares amongst the wheat? There are three categories of people we must look at here. Believers, unbelievers in the church, and unbelievers outside the church. Hebrews draws several parallels with OT Israel, especially with those in the camp which were apostates. How are they described? Who were the people in Hebrews, what were their attributes? 1 Once enlightened 2 Tasted the heavenly gift 3 Partakers of the Holy spirit 4 Tasted the good word of God 5 Cannot be renewed again to repentance Now the list above appears to describe true believers, but it could just as well be describing people who are not believers, those who have made a false declaration of faith. So all of the attributes in the Hebrews passages may be possessed by non believers, those who go to church every Sunday and hear the Word taught and preached and are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2009 Not one verse quoted i support of your "fall-away" and the need t6o be "re-saved" has any reference whatever to receiving or "losing" everlasting life. Not one. They all have reference to walking with the Savior in one way or another lest we fail to hear His "Well done" at the Bema Judgment Seat for Christians (Romans 14:12). You continue to pooh-pooh the Savior's specific assurances based on the original Greek for John 10:27,28. First off, you wonder what version I use...hey, brother, it's the original Greek on the verses quoted. Jesus says, "never, never never perish" (triple negative in the Greek) and you confess that you don't know anything about the Savior's emphatic assurances about receiving everlasting life! It has puzzled you. Well, come alive and listen to our miraculous Lord & Savior afresh: "No man shall pluck you out of My hand!' And re any of your "falling out," the Savior answers that too: He is "able to keep us from falling!" And my original reminder to you still holds fast: If we're "in Christ" and Christ is "in His Father," then you must believe that Christ (in Whom we are) and the Father (in Whom Christ is found) must also be lost with us!! Incredulous! Pray tell, what does Paul's declaration about our being "sealed" unto WHAT? Doesn't he give the time limit for your sealing...."Unto the Day of Redemption" (the very day of our seeing Christ upon His glorious Return! Thank You, Lord Jesus! AMEN! Rejoice with Him! Apparently you are not reading all of my posts, but trying to pick apart the sections you don't like. To reassure you, I do believe , with all my heart, that those who choose to remain in Him, will always remain in Him, for they will lay their lives down so He can live in and through them. YET, and I stress this with you totally, there are those who will turn from Christ. Their Choice. Not taken out or snatched away, their choice to leave. What does the word snatch mean to you? Is it the same as choosing to leave on your own? Have you ever used Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software? It does not show what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenclay Posted October 9, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2009 Now where does it say"He that has begun a good work in you shall complete it until the day of ....? Are we not sealed unto the day of redemption? We ought to be careful how we base our findings about people we never inteviewed reagarding why they are living like an unsaved person. There are different reasons people come to Christ to be saved and they have their own ideas hiding in them about what they should give up after they get saved. Some drink wine, some still smoke, some still curse and so on. I once asked, how could these people be so careless with their Christian life? Shortly after I got my answer. I backlsid myself and isolated myself from getting help to be restored back into fellowship. It just got worse and I got scared and called on the Lord again. Not to be saved but to forgive me. I've lost my fervor, my zeal , my boldness. God is faithful and has been dealing with my attitude and is longsuffering towards me. The devil on the other hand has been attacking me viciously because he sees me struggling. I began to think he's been getting permission from God to come after me. I have prayed for God to get him off my back so I can have some peace and get more scripture read and memorized. I must be saved or I wouldn't be in this spiritual battle right now. yeehaw! Well, I was just sharing my experience. bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Yes you have faith, you have salvation; you are waging the battle, the same one we are all waging on different fronts. Some with addictions, some with temptation to adultery or fornication, some with rage and anger, some with pride, some with gluttony and greed and on and on. The key is the battle and to fight boldly. In this discussion you bring up a good point, we must not discourage people, we must encourage people that we are all in the same boat, and yes you cannot tell from outward appearances. My points have been that we must not grow lax in a false sense of security giving us license to give up the struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Joseph Posted October 9, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 444 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/29/1966 Share Posted October 9, 2009 The key is the battle and to fight boldly. My points have been that we must not grow lax in a false sense of security giving us license to give up the struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 So, if indeed they were never saved to start with, would it not be horrible indeed to assure them of their salvation? As you say we cannot know from the outside who really does have a saving faith. Regardless of if they are "truly" saved or not, the point is THEY believe they are saved because they were told that all you have to do to have lifetime faith and be saved is answer an alter call and say one prayer. So when they look at the sin in their life, when they look at their own lack of faith, they don't see any need for repentance nor conversion, as they have the false assurance of salvation. It seems a very dangerous path to preach to people does it not? Which goes back to what I said earlier. The problem is that people (particularly those on this board) who really don't have a grasp on what Eternal Security actually teaches, create all kinds of problems in how the doctrine is approached. I would also add that there has been a lot of sloppy exegesis on this thread as well, pertaining to several passages. People are arguing from their misperceptions ofa doctrine and are really doing nothing but creating confusion. It would be helpful if people would bother to study a doctrine out before trying to pontificate upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted October 9, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Salvation cannot be lost. But, at what point is one irrevocably saved? That is really the question that is being debated here. I believe one is saved when one stands before the Judgment Throne of God and hears the words: "Well done, good and faithful servant." Not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted October 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.22 Content Count: 4,274 Content Per Day: 4.76 Reputation: 1,856 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This is my own understanding and I will not debate anyone who may take issue with my belief. So many people think that the belief in OSAS comes without caveats. True salvation comes with true confession and repentance; this must continue throughout the redeemed' life. People who think that they can do whatever the want are not saved. However, one can "backslide" into a state of sinfulness and still be saved. But continued "willful" sin is indicative of a person who is not saved. Many who are saved, and backslide, don't understand the consequences of their sin. It is not condemnation, but rather a loss of reward in paradise. They believe that they will receive the same rewards as one who has walked hand-in-hand with the Holy Spirit throughout life. This belief is the fault of the Church, which does not teach this Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hi parker, I don't want to debate you on this but I just want to understand a little. What does backsliding mean? Do you mean someone who sins as we all do and repents? Or are you speaking of someone who for a period intentionally sins with the idea of a planned repentance later after they have lived in sin for some period of time? I am having a hard time with backsliding and what it means, what would become of them if they died in this period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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