can salvation be lost?

October 21, 2009

Works are simply a byproduct of true faith.

"true faith" to what? you lost me there. i dont believe nor accept that your "true faith" relies on how true your works are.
makes no sense

Works are the revelation of your faith. Your works justify your profession of faith in Christ in the sight of men. Your works indicate to others that you are a child of God. Works don't secure salvation, but rather they are the demonstration of it.

October 21, 2009

And see, I didn't have to resort to sarcasm and put-downs as you seem unable to resist doing.

Yeah I may have been a little sarcastic but I am not the one calling people ignorant and unqualified to understand the bible.

No one said that. What I said is that you are unqualified to address doctrine. And it is true, given the shallowness of your understanding of salvation as revealed in your posts.

Jedi4Yahweh · October 21, 2009

And see, I didn't have to resort to sarcasm and put-downs as you seem unable to resist doing.

Yeah I may have been a little sarcastic but I am not the one calling people ignorant and unqualified to understand the bible.

No one said that. What I said is that you are unqualified to address doctrine. And it is true, given the shallowness of your understanding of salvation as revealed in your posts.

So I am ignorant and unqualified to give my biblical opinion of a doctrine???

I am still waiting on your divine qualifications, oh great and lofty one?

HAZARD · October 21, 2009

Dear fellow members of the body of Christ.

Knowing or having all the answeres we think we have regarding Doctins has nothing to do with our own personal salvation. Knowing all the answeres is not a pre-requiset or garantee of ones salvation. Lets all keep this in mind when we respond to each other. God's angeles who rebelled against Him, the angels who knew everything there is to now are now in chains and in darkness awaiting the final judgment because of their sins. Lets treat each other as we desreve to the treated. As members of God's family.

Love you all,

Haz.

jesussaves · October 21, 2009

I have alwyas believed that salvation could not be lost and i have seen great scripture supporting both that it can and cannot be lost.
what do others think and what scripture leads you to think this?

The Lord has this to say about those who are not in right relationship with Him.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

To the Church in Laodicea (NIV)

14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm

October 21, 2009

And see, I didn't have to resort to sarcasm and put-downs as you seem unable to resist doing.

Yeah I may have been a little sarcastic but I am not the one calling people ignorant and unqualified to understand the bible.

No one said that. What I said is that you are unqualified to address doctrine. And it is true, given the shallowness of your understanding of salvation as revealed in your posts.

So I am ignorant and unqualified to give my biblical opinion of a doctrine???

I am still waiting on your divine qualifications, oh great and lofty one?

You refuse to educate yourself on the doctrines you wish to address. You argue on the basis of misperceptions and false assumptions drawn from those misperceptions, and it disqualifies you from having anything meaningful to offer in the discussion. What good is offering an opinion if it is based on wrong information?

You are hell bent on projecting your misperceptions on to the subject and that simply plants misinformation and confusion into the issue being discussed. It is not a matter of "divine qualifications." Rather, it is having the integrity to at least educate yourself on the issue. You don't understand Eternal Security, and more time is wasted trying to correct your misperceptions than in quality doctrinal discussion. Your false assumptions and misperceptions are a liability to fruitful doctrinal discussion.

Smalcald · October 21, 2009

Works are simply a byproduct of true faith.

"true faith" to what? you lost me there. i dont believe nor accept that your "true faith" relies on how true your works are.
makes no sense

Like Shiloh pointed out works are an outgrowth of a true faith in Christ as Lord, but this true faith in Christ comes about only through being born again. The faith does not rely on the works, the works rely on the faith.

EricH · October 21, 2009

Saints,

We are getting a reports regarding uncivility in this thread. Please refrain from personal attacks agains others. If we can't make our point without demeaning others, we really don't have a point.

leoxiii · October 21, 2009

Dude, you forgot a verse between the two you posted:

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Yes.

But you must reconcile the two verses.

They cannot contradict each other.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not; and whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, nor known him.

When we sin, we are cut off from the throne of grace. When we ask for forgiveness with a true and contrite heart, our access is restored to the throne of grace.

That is how I understand it.

If we sin, and die in our sin, then we are truly lost.

If we sin, and repent, and die in our repentance, then we are saved.

Conversion is an ongoing and daily process that does not end until we die.

But, here is the clincher.

God already knows who dies repentant and who dies unrepentant.

Therefore, because of His omniscience, He can speak of someone or other being among the Elect.

We, however, cannot do that.

Not unless we want to proclaim ourselves omniscient.

The promises of Scripture are always conditional.

IF they keep My commandments.

IF they persevere to the end.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say: Don't sweat it, boyz!

Smalcald · October 21, 2009

So you are saying it is the continual repentance that keeps us whole?

I would agree in the broad concept with that. The issue for me would be how much is enough? What I mean is that we sin all of the time in thought word and deed, how could we ever be sure enough about our repentance? It would seem that even repentance flows from faith and love of God, a person with true faith will want to repent and will have a contrite heart when they know about their sin.