can salvation be lost?

[Smalcald]

Mark 16 is questionable anyway.

[exrockstar]

Mark 16 is questionable anyway.

I understand Mark 16. I have no questions. However, people that use it for their beliefs have failed to keep reading beyond verse 16.

[leoxiii]

Mark 16 is questionable anyway.

Is it your intention to dismiss it from the Scriptures like Luther did with the Deuterocanonical Books?

[OneLight]

Mark 16 is questionable anyway.

Is it your intention to dismiss it from the Scriptures like Luther did with the Deuterocanonical Books?

Seems to me that the Tanakh did not include them either. So quick to blame Protestants.

The Tanakh has the following:

Torah

1. Genesis - Bereshith

2. Exodus - Shemot

3. Leviticus - Vayikra

4. Numbers - Bamidbar

5. Deuteronomy - Devarim

Nevi'im

6. Joshua (יהושע / Y'hoshua)

7. Judges (שופטים / Shophtim)

8. Samuel (I & II) (שמואל / Sh'muel)

9. Kings (I & II) (מלכים / M'lakhim)

10. Isaiah (ישעיה / Y'shayahu)

11. Jeremiah (ירמיה / Yir'mi'yahu)

12. Ezekiel (יחזקאל / Y'khezqel)

13. The Twelve Prophets (תרי עשר)

a. Hosea (הושע / Hoshea)

b. Joel (יואל / Yo'el)

c. Amos (עמוס / Amos)

d. Obadiah (עובדיה / Ovadyah)

e. Jonah (יונה / Yonah)

f. Micah (מיכה / Mikhah)

g. Nahum (נחום / Nakhum)

h. Habakkuk (חבקוק /Havakuk)

i. Zephaniah (צפניה / Ts'phanyah)

j. Haggai (חגי / Khagai)

k. Zechariah (זכריה / Z'kharyah)

l. Malachi (מלאכי / Mal'akhi)

Ketuvim

14. Psalms [תהלים / Tehilim]

15. Proverbs [משלי / Mishlei]

16. Job [איוב / Iyov]

The "Five Megilot" or "Five Scrolls":

17. Song of Songs [שיר השירים / Shir Hashirim]

18. Ruth [רות / Rut]

19. Lamentations [איכה / Eikhah]

20. Ecclesiastes [קהלת / Kohelet]

21. Esther [אסתר / Esther]

The rest of the "Writings":

22. Daniel [דניאל / Dani'el]

23. Ezra-Nehemiah [עזרא ונחמיה / Ezra v'Nekhemia]

24. Chronicles (I & II) [דברי הימים / Divrei Hayamim]

Where in these books do you find:

Tobit

Judith

Additions to Esther (Vulgate Esther 10:4-16:24[7])

Wisdom

Sirach, also called Ben Sira or Ecclesiasticus

Baruch, including the Letter of Jeremiah (Additions to Jeremiah in the Septuagint[8])

Additions to Daniel:

Song of the Three Children (Vulgate Daniel 3:24-90)

Story of Susanna (Vulgate Daniel 13, Septuagint prologue)

The Idol Bel and the Dragon (Vulgate Daniel 14, Septuagint epilogue)

1 Maccabees

2 Maccabees

[kross]

Yes, we can do all those things now. WHen need be. It also says not to tempt the LORD the GOD. So, by all means, HE "has given you authority over snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy"

"If you profess me before men I will profess you before my FATHER" the one commandment we have is to show to people to whom we belong. You seem to have a "I want it my way" Christianity. You must live in America.

that's it? No scripture saying that we have to do physical baptisms and NOT doing so is disobedient?

We all agree that the "one baptism (Eph 4:5) is the Holy Spirit's but we must do a second/two?

Scripture says one but youre fixed on two?

If you believe in the baptism in Mark 16:16 then you better follow out the order of "healing the sick (v18)" and NOT doing that is being disobedient to the Lord(v20).

It's not tempting the Lord because v20 says it is "His will!"

So what hospital emergency room have you walked into to heal the sick? You haven't.

You're just as bad as the other member here that fails to make a case. You guys are clinching to the word "baptism" on Mark 16:16 but are neglecting to see what comes along with that. You said you believe it but are failing to do it. Don't hide under "tempting" because it is "His will" to do it Mark 16:20.

Well, I was asking questions but got a remark on America's Christianity? ha ha.

I have prayed over a man who was on an oxygen bottle for 14 years and he was healed. I have preached the word to the lost and cast out their demons. I have handled snakes, not poison ones. I have eaten at McDonalds and not died (it does say we will swallow poison and it will not harm us)

Now, even though this is a scripture that states things they will do as a group and not things that each of them will do, I thought I would point to some of those GOD has done through me.

I am not sure why you are so adament about not getting Baptised, but if it is such a big deal to you, then don't do it.

As many places as the Bible speaks of baptism, I do not understand why you would not do it. That is between you and your GOD.

And no, I am really not into proof texting all the time. I have learned that people will ignore what they want to ignore regardless of who or what states somehting different.

This seemed like a reasonable discussion, but you really seem to be looking to just have it your way and I am willing to let you. Baptism is not a requirement. If you feel JESUS is your LORD and you are doing the things HE said to do and you do not see HIM saying to be Baptised, then don't. That is between you and HIM. As I stated, I just do not see why one wouldn't.

Although, if there is someone who lead you to the LORD and is discipling you, they have a very specific command to baptise you. I guess you will just have to find a mentor you do not repect enough so you can tell that person no. Of course, with that, you also have the commandment to go and make disciples and Baptise them. Boy doesn't that just get stickier and stickier.

Maybe you should just be glad in your salvation and leave the saving and discipling to those who believe in the commandments. After all, it would be quite hypocritical to make people get baptised when you do not feel it needs to be done, or actually, feel it should not be done.

Peace

[kross]

Yes, we can do all those things now. WHen need be. It also says not to tempt the LORD the GOD. So, by all means, HE "has given you authority over snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy"

"If you profess me before men I will profess you before my FATHER" the one commandment we have is to show to people to whom we belong. You seem to have a "I want it my way" Christianity. You must live in America.

that's it? No scripture saying that we have to do physical baptisms and NOT doing so is disobedient?

We all agree that the "one baptism (Eph 4:5) is the Holy Spirit's but we must do a second/two?

Scripture says one but youre fixed on two?

If you believe in the baptism in Mark 16:16 then you better follow out the order of "healing the sick (v18)" and NOT doing that is being disobedient to the Lord(v20).

It's not tempting the Lord because v20 says it is "His will!"

So what hospital emergency room have you walked into to heal the sick? You haven't.

You're just as bad as the other member here that fails to make a case. You guys are clinching to the word "baptism" on Mark 16:16 but are neglecting to see what comes along with that. You said you believe it but are failing to do it. Don't hide under "tempting" because it is "His will" to do it Mark 16:20.

Well, I was asking questions but got a remark on America's Christianity? ha ha.

There is a simple reality that JESUS was baptised and you have the oportunity to share in that very same baptism. It is a great time of spiritual oneness with the LORD. Is there a reason you do not want that? Is there a reason not to run to the waters and share this with JESUS? Is there a reason not to share in HIS death, burial, and resurection in this most wonderful symbolic way?

Seriously, is there a reason? Are you afraid of water? Hydrophobic I believe they call it.

[exrockstar]

There is a simple reality that JESUS was baptised and you have the oportunity to share in that very same baptism. It is a great time of spiritual oneness with the LORD. Is there a reason you do not want that? Is there a reason not to run to the waters and share this with JESUS? Is there a reason not to share in HIS death, burial, and resurection in this most wonderful symbolic way?

Seriously, is there a reason? Are you afraid of water? Hydrophobic I believe they call it.

you remind me of a movie I saw called "Jesus Camp." Rent it, I bet you'll love it.

[kross]

There is a simple reality that JESUS was baptised and you have the oportunity to share in that very same baptism. It is a great time of spiritual oneness with the LORD. Is there a reason you do not want that? Is there a reason not to run to the waters and share this with JESUS? Is there a reason not to share in HIS death, burial, and resurection in this most wonderful symbolic way?

Seriously, is there a reason? Are you afraid of water? Hydrophobic I believe they call it.

you remind me of a movie I saw called "Jesus Camp." Rent it, I bet you'll love it.

It was a serious question. Is there a reason you hagte the idea of being baptised?

[Guest shiloh357]

that's it? No scripture saying that we have to do physical baptisms and NOT doing so is disobedient?

It's so simple a first grader can understand. Jesus commanded us to be baptized (Matt. 28:19-20) To refuse Baptism would be disoedience. Honestly, the logic is not that hard.

If you believe in the baptism in Mark 16:16 then you better follow out the order of "healing the sick (v18)" and NOT doing that is being disobedient to the Lord(v20).

healing is not a commandment. Jesus did not command us to go heal.

You're just as bad as the other member here that fails to make a case. You guys are clinching to the word "baptism" on Mark 16:16 but are neglecting to see what comes along with that. You said you believe it but are failing to do it. Don't hide under "tempting" because it is "His will" to do it Mark 16:20.

No, the problem is that you are not theologically equipped to even partake in this discussion.

[exrockstar]

It's so simple a first grader can understand. Jesus commanded us to be baptized (Matt. 28:19-20) To refuse Baptism would be disoedience. Honestly, the logic is not that hard.

He actually commanded them not you. Although it seems that salvation required baptism in those verses (because it does seem that way) it was NEVER the ritual that saved you. It was doing it in the name of the "Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" that was the sealing. Oh the blasphamy it would have been. You're just stuck on the ritual. That's fine.

healing is not a commandment. Jesus did not command us to go heal.

It actually was in Mark 16 (to the end). I did notice that you moved away from Mark 16:16 and jumped to Matt 28. Same incident different author. One had more detail than the other. You just got away from the details to prove your "point." Christ did "command" them to heal the sick by saying they "confirmed his word by the signs (Mark 16:20)" which were "healing" after being "baptized. Go read it. You can tap dance around that.

No, the problem is that you are not theologically equipped to even partake in this discussion.

Are you calling yourself equipped after I just corrected your flawed points?