How did the early churches operate?

[mizzdy]

I think what is happening is that a winnowing is taking place in the body of Messiah, lines are being drawn, and the true Church is emerging...or being more clearly identified. From what I observe three things that help identify it are :-

1.They believe the Scriptures.

2.They are led by the Spirit.

3.They love Israel and understand the Fathers heart concerning the Jewish people.

In these times I have seen more and more how so much of the organised Church embraces replacement theology, and believes what they are doing is motivated by the leading of the Holy Spirit and found in Scripture...not only that, but there is an incomprehensible need for them to side with Palestinian rhetoric and actually promote it from the pulpit, and in lectures and discussions in church halls.

Jedi...I can't see Yod or anyone promoting a two tiered system, and that Gentiles are inferior to Jews.

We need to strive to keep the bond of unity, and a love of the brethren.

I am seeing the same thing Botz, lines drawn and the wagons are circling! lol So many who do think they are upholding Israel also believe there is some how some separation in the two, God will bring all back to Jerusalem, all of His family. I see how the palestinians are using the members of Gods family against one another, dividing them in so many places it really is very sad and terrible to know that the word of God is not being taught or every read by many people.

[Botz]

I have not seen the lectures, sermons and so forth supporting the PLO and so forth, where is that happening?

There is only one Church and I am not comfortable with chopping off whole chunks of it, I think we should resist the urge to form our own little clubs that just so happen to agree with our personal views on the details of doctrine; and feel that we are somehow above the pedestrian, boring old "organized" Church, which of course does not even exist and is currently so divided that you can't make any sort of broad statement about it anyway.

It is happening all over the place here in the UK...just recently some friends of mine attended a good C of E Church that had someone come and give a talk on their recent visit to Israel....and the picture she painted was unbelievable in the way she sided with evil and made out that Israel was a usurping, violent ignorant nation that should not be there. i followed up on this and found the organization that sends these people out to lecture to churches, and from what I can tell they target anywhere they can get a foothold and tell their lies....the congregation were lapping it up because they are ignorant of what goes on apart from biased reporting in the press....so when someone who has been there comes and says it is far worse than anything they have read in the press, they are further hardened, and these are decent Christians being deceived.

I have spoken to many people in the UK from a wide range of Church traditions, and I was astonished at their combination of ignorance of Scripture and history and the readiness to consume and agree with anything that besmirched Israel, and their reluctance to lay any blame at the feet of Islamic terrorists.

On top of this I have spent many weeks in Israel seeking out and talking to people from many different churches that have been established in the land for centuries, and almost without exception they were entirely pro-Palestinian...I went to a nunnery in Palestinian territory, and the dear nun there spoke a few words to me in french about how they were really prisoners and terrorised by the Palestinians, but dare not say anything in case they get further persecuted.

It is not a case of trying to cut up the body, or form cliques of like-minded people.....it is the desperate need to sound a warning about what is happening and seek to promote biblical and historical truth to counteract the lies....the alternative is to sit back and let it all wash over you, or place it on the shelf for perusal at some further date.

I am well aware that some of this on the surface can seem to detract from knowing G-d and pursuing a holy life and preaching the gospel to see people saved....but from what I see the Apostle Paul out of necessity had to address any number of problems that might have been construed as peripheral at times....but Israel is the focus of the worlds attention, and the Body of Messiah cannot afford the luxury of ignoring what is happening.

{Here is a link to Stephen Sizer's ministry that demonstrates something of what one is up against...he is extremely articulate and knowledgable...and in my opinion very wrong with his approah to Israel....if you join up the dots you can find what organizations he is associated with and where they truly stand. http://stephensizer.blogspot.com/ }

[OneLight]

Botz, the majority of the world would rather have their belief handed to them through others whom they put their trust in and not by researching the subject matter themselves to find the truth. News today paints a tainted picture of Israel, and this is where many people get their information. As it is written, so shall it be ... 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

What are they falling away from? The truth.

[nebula]

Please note, that it was not I who brought up the Roman Catholic Church here.

Yes you did here:

I believe I was taught by men who were guided by the Holy Spirit. Men to whom the Apostolic Teaching was delivered undefiled. I confirm this by 1 John 4:6 We are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. and Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

[nebula]

Was that before or after pagan influences infiltrated the church? What's St. Peter's Square doing with an Egyptian obelisk in it's square anyway?

The word "Obelisk" comes from the Greek obeliskos, meaning a prong for roasting. It is a stone that is frequently monolithic, of a quadrangular base, placed upright and ending with a pointed top. It was placed in the center of large open spaces in the temples of the solar god RA. They arose, by the time of the predynastic period cults, to a great sacred stone which was raised in the Temple of Heliopolis, the "City of the Sun." As with the pyramids, this monument had a primitive relation with the solar cult.

http://www.egipto.com/obeliscos/histo2.html

The same reason the Vatican does not destroy any art.

1 Corinthians 10:26 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. 27 If any of them that believe not, invite you, and you will be willing to go; eat of any thing that is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. 28 But if any man say: This has been sacrificed to idols, do not eat of it for his sake that told it, and for conscience' sake. 29 Conscience, I say, not thy own, but the other's. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 30 If I partake with thanksgiving, why am I evil spoken of, for that for which I give thanks?

What does moving a sacred stone to the Egyptian sun god from a temple in Egypt to the center of St. Peter's Square have to do with not destroying art?

You claimed your church to be undefiled, yet it is defiled with pagan symbols.

[EricH]

The scriptures do not show us the operation of the early churches at all.

Then how do you know how they operated?

The book of Acts gives us an idea, However, Acts is descriptive, not prescriptive. Paul's Epistles contain certain prescriptive ideas, but there is no systematic description of what every church should look like

[Smalcald]

I have not seen the lectures, sermons and so forth supporting the PLO and so forth, where is that happening?

There is only one Church and I am not comfortable with chopping off whole chunks of it, I think we should resist the urge to form our own little clubs that just so happen to agree with our personal views on the details of doctrine; and feel that we are somehow above the pedestrian, boring old "organized" Church, which of course does not even exist and is currently so divided that you can't make any sort of broad statement about it anyway.

It is happening all over the place here in the UK...just recently some friends of mine attended a good C of E Church that had someone come and give a talk on their recent visit to Israel....and the picture she painted was unbelievable in the way she sided with evil and made out that Israel was a usurping, violent ignorant nation that should not be there. i followed up on this and found the organization that sends these people out to lecture to churches, and from what I can tell they target anywhere they can get a foothold and tell their lies....the congregation were lapping it up because they are ignorant of what goes on apart from biased reporting in the press....so when someone who has been there comes and says it is far worse than anything they have read in the press, they are further hardened, and these are decent Christians being deceived.

I have spoken to many people in the UK from a wide range of Church traditions, and I was astonished at their combination of ignorance of Scripture and history and the readiness to consume and agree with anything that besmirched Israel, and their reluctance to lay any blame at the feet of Islamic terrorists.

On top of this I have spent many weeks in Israel seeking out and talking to people from many different churches that have been established in the land for centuries, and almost without exception they were entirely pro-Palestinian...I went to a nunnery in Palestinian territory, and the dear nun there spoke a few words to me in french about how they were really prisoners and terrorised by the Palestinians, but dare not say anything in case they get further persecuted.

It is not a case of trying to cut up the body, or form cliques of like-minded people.....it is the desperate need to sound a warning about what is happening and seek to promote biblical and historical truth to counteract the lies....the alternative is to sit back and let it all wash over you, or place it on the shelf for perusal at some further date.

I am well aware that some of this on the surface can seem to detract from knowing G-d and pursuing a holy life and preaching the gospel to see people saved....but from what I see the Apostle Paul out of necessity had to address any number of problems that might have been construed as peripheral at times....but Israel is the focus of the worlds attention, and the Body of Messiah cannot afford the luxury of ignoring what is happening.

{Here is a link to Stephen Sizer's ministry that demonstrates something of what one is up against...he is extremely articulate and knowledgable...and in my opinion very wrong with his approah to Israel....if you join up the dots you can find what organizations he is associated with and where they truly stand. http://stephensizer.blogspot.com/ }

Thanks for the update.

I am pretty limited in what I see and hear just from my own congregation. In general everyone I know from my Church despises the Islamists who want to destroy Israel.

Also they are silently killing and persecuting the Arab Christians among them who are still left in the Middle East.

I know among Lefties it is all the vogue to hate Israel and support the terrorists. It is too bad when Churches give these guys a venue to speak.

[leoxiii]

Not going to answer my question, leoxiii?

Was that before or after pagan influences infiltrated the church? What's St. Peter's Square doing with an Egyptian obelisk in it's square anyway?

The word "Obelisk" comes from the Greek obeliskos, meaning a prong for roasting. It is a stone that is frequently monolithic, of a quadrangular base, placed upright and ending with a pointed top. It was placed in the center of large open spaces in the temples of the solar god RA. They arose, by the time of the predynastic period cults, to a great sacred stone which was raised in the Temple of Heliopolis, the "City of the Sun." As with the pyramids, this monument had a primitive relation with the solar cult.

http://www.egipto.com/obeliscos/histo2.html

The same reason the Vatican does not destroy any art.

1 Corinthians 10:26 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. 27 If any of them that believe not, invite you, and you will be willing to go; eat of any thing that is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. 28 But if any man say: This has been sacrificed to idols, do not eat of it for his sake that told it, and for conscience' sake. 29 Conscience, I say, not thy own, but the other's. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 30 If I partake with thanksgiving, why am I evil spoken of, for that for which I give thanks?

Want to know about the Star of David?

http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/jewis...r-of-david.html

Talk about gross misinfomation!!!

I know. The whole obelisk thingy is just a load of doo-doo.

[leoxiii]

Please note, that it was not I who brought up the Roman Catholic Church here.

Yes you did here:

I believe I was taught by men who were guided by the Holy Spirit. Men to whom the Apostolic Teaching was delivered undefiled. I confirm this by 1 John 4:6 We are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. and Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

That is an apt description.

[Guest shiloh357]

Not going to answer my question, leoxiii?

Was that before or after pagan influences infiltrated the church? What's St. Peter's Square doing with an Egyptian obelisk in it's square anyway?

The word "Obelisk" comes from the Greek obeliskos, meaning a prong for roasting. It is a stone that is frequently monolithic, of a quadrangular base, placed upright and ending with a pointed top. It was placed in the center of large open spaces in the temples of the solar god RA. They arose, by the time of the predynastic period cults, to a great sacred stone which was raised in the Temple of Heliopolis, the "City of the Sun." As with the pyramids, this monument had a primitive relation with the solar cult.

http://www.egipto.com/obeliscos/histo2.html

The same reason the Vatican does not destroy any art.

1 Corinthians 10:26 The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. 27 If any of them that believe not, invite you, and you will be willing to go; eat of any thing that is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. 28 But if any man say: This has been sacrificed to idols, do not eat of it for his sake that told it, and for conscience' sake. 29 Conscience, I say, not thy own, but the other's. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 30 If I partake with thanksgiving, why am I evil spoken of, for that for which I give thanks?

Want to know about the Star of David?

http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/jewis...r-of-david.html

Talk about gross misinfomation!!!

I know. The whole obelisk thingy is just a load of doo-doo.

No, it is the claim that the Star of David is of pagan origin that is a load of doo-doo. It is nothing but conspiracy nonsense. It may have been hijacked by pagans and Kabbalists, but it is not of pagan origin.