All ISrael will be saved

[ellarose]

Thanks Lekh! I think i am starting to understand now.

How exciting! (not about understanding, but about the return of Christ!)

True, it is exciting to know He's coming back. Lots of tragedy before He does because of man's rejection of the LORD and of His Christ before He comes back though, and that's the sad part.

Just remember that although there are many Christians who understand the prophecies the same way I do, there are also many who understand things differently, and they will give you a different explanation (and that might confuse you).

The best is to check the scriptures out in the Bible yourself and also pray to God and ask Him to give you discernment and understanding wherever there is discrepancy between what various groups of Christians teach regarding prophecy. Don't take my word or anyone else's word for it - God gave His book to YOU personally.

Lekh

Thanks Lekh, that's great advice.

I do know about amillenial teaching especially. i guess that's probably the most common alternative.

I believe in a literal interpretation though - According to the context. So I appreciate all this help! In the end I'm going to read all the text in Scripture again though.

Thanks!

[lekh l'kha]

Thanks Lekh, that's great advice.

I do know about amillenial teaching especially. i guess that's probably the most common alternative.

I believe in a literal interpretation though - According to the context. So I appreciate all this help! In the end I'm going to read all the text in Scripture again though.

Thanks!

Only a pleasure

Amillenialists:

1. Don't believe in the reconciliation of "all Israel" to Christ, because they view "all Israel" as having nothing to do with the flesh-seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but as an international nation made up of all peoples who are "in Christ" (as opposed to Gentile believers in Jesus being grafted into Israel among the remnant of the flesh-seed who believe in Jesus, as stated in Rom.11: 17).

2. As you know, amillenialists see the Lord's judgment of the nations at the end of this age as the "Great White Throne judgment" which Revelation speaks of as coming after the close of the millennium, because they don't believe in a literal millennium, but they see "the millennium" as referring symbolically to the age in-between the ascension and return of Jesus.

3. Therefore to amillienialists, two concepts are alien to their thinking:

3.1 The concept of Jesus judging the nations that will gather against Jerusalem while saving Jacob (Israel) at that time.

3.2 The concept of "those who are left" (of all the nations which gathered against Jerusalem and which will go up form year to year to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles").

4. Amillenialists see God's judgment of ALL flesh except the redeemed in the days of Noah as a Biblical type of God's judgment of ALL flesh except the redeemed at the end of this age (which they believe is "the Great White Throne judgment") (and therefore again, the concept of "those who are left" is alien to their thinking).

But just after the flood, God said to Noah:

"And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth." (Gen 9:11).

The Hebrew word translated into English as "neither" is "lo", meaning, "not":

"... not shall all flesh be cut off anymore by the waters of a flood, and not shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."

The key words are "all flesh" and "the waters of a flood".

Therefore, in accordance with God's covenant with Noah, when Jesus returns with His resurrected saints and judges the nations which have gathered against Jerusalem, "not shall all flesh be cut off" - there will be "those who are left".

The great White throne judgment at the close of the millennium follows one final rebellion of the nations against God:

"... And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:7-15).

Lekh

[ellarose]

So much information! Many things to ponder thank you!

[kross]

"for God so loved the world that He gave His only Son".

Its apparent that God loves ALL the world, but not ALL will be saved, only "WHOEVER shall believe".

Likewise i dont see ALL of Israel being saved, only those who will believe. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

For I do not desire, bretheren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written;

[kross]

Romans 11:25-29 NKJV

For I do not desire, bretheren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written;

"The deliverer will come out of Zion, And HE will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

For this is MY covenant with them. When I take away their sins."

Concerning the Gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

For the gifts of GOD are irrevocable.

Hi Kross.

I'm kinda new to this idea, as I never heard about it growing up or at any churches I've attended - Can you maybe expand on it or something?

Everyone here seems to know so much about Isreal and the significance in the end times apart from me!

Sorry!

Ella rose

Well Ella,

Truth is that this is a mystery, just as Paul has stated. I for many years felt as if the nation of Israel was forfiet of there own hand to the promises that GOD had given to them. This is taught in many churches and was perpetuated by the mother church over the first 1600 years of Christianity, even to the point of using the scriptures to support the actions of the crusades, the inquisition, and even the holocaust of WWII.

Some teach that Christians are now the true JEws and the JEws are now the gentiles.

The truth in scripture is that Christian gentiles who were without hope in the world and separated from the GOD of creation and the GOD of Israel, are melded into the promise of GOD to HIS chosen people. If this promise can be taken back or discarded, than the promise we have in this inheritance is equally perilous or pecarious. (I can tel my spelling is off but I can not for the life of me draw the proper spelling from my brain)

You need only to know for a certain that salvation is of THE LORD by faith in JESUS CHRIST and should you have opportunity to witness to someone of the Jewish faith, do not come at them as if trying to save their souls but rather as trying to introduce them to JESUS the CHRIST. It is in their own religion and their own prophets that they can and will see HIM, should GOD choose to grant that vision to them.

As the scriptue states, HE has blinded them to the truth until the time of the fulness of the gentiles. Only HE can remove that blindness.

HIS peace to you and yours.

[ellarose]

Romans 11:25-29 NKJV

For I do not desire, bretheren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written;

"The deliverer will come out of Zion, And HE will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

For this is MY covenant with them. When I take away their sins."

Concerning the Gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

For the gifts of GOD are irrevocable.

Hi Kross.

I'm kinda new to this idea, as I never heard about it growing up or at any churches I've attended - Can you maybe expand on it or something?

Everyone here seems to know so much about Isreal and the significance in the end times apart from me!

Sorry!

Ella rose

Well Ella,

Truth is that this is a mystery, just as Paul has stated. I for many years felt as if the nation of Israel was forfiet of there own hand to the promises that GOD had given to them. This is taught in many churches and was perpetuated by the mother church over the first 1600 years of Christianity, even to the point of using the scriptures to support the actions of the crusades, the inquisition, and even the holocaust of WWII.

Some teach that Christians are now the true JEws and the JEws are now the gentiles.

The truth in scripture is that Christian gentiles who were without hope in the world and separated from the GOD of creation and the GOD of Israel, are melded into the promise of GOD to HIS chosen people. If this promise can be taken back or discarded, than the promise we have in this inheritance is equally perilous or pecarious. (I can tel my spelling is off but I can not for the life of me draw the proper spelling from my brain)

You need only to know for a certain that salvation is of THE LORD by faith in JESUS CHRIST and should you have opportunity to witness to someone of the Jewish faith, do not come at them as if trying to save their souls but rather as trying to introduce them to JESUS the CHRIST. It is in their own religion and their own prophets that they can and will see HIM, should GOD choose to grant that vision to them.

As the scriptue states, HE has blinded them to the truth until the time of the fulness of the gentiles. Only HE can remove that blindness.

HIS peace to you and yours.

Thanks Kross!

Yep that makes sense.

So the Jews are still saved through Christ is what you're saying right? I just wanted to get that clear.

They are just blinded now but will see the truth when God has all the Gentiles He predestined?

So glad so many people are willing to explain these things biblically to me here on Worthy

Thanks again! Sorry about the delay, I just got engaged so haven't been at the cmoputer much

Your sister in Christ,

Ella rose

[Guest]

Hallelujah!

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent:

hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it. Numbers 23:19-20

Jesus Is LORD!

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.

Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem:

and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth;

and the mountain of the LORD of hosts

the holy mountain. Zechariah 8:2-3

And Salvation Is His Name!

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:

for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said,

and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32

[kross]

Romans 11:25-29 NKJV

For I do not desire, bretheren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written;

"The deliverer will come out of Zion, And HE will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

For this is MY covenant with them. When I take away their sins."

Concerning the Gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

For the gifts of GOD are irrevocable.

Hi Kross.

I'm kinda new to this idea, as I never heard about it growing up or at any churches I've attended - Can you maybe expand on it or something?

Everyone here seems to know so much about Isreal and the significance in the end times apart from me!

Sorry!

Ella rose

Well Ella,

Truth is that this is a mystery, just as Paul has stated. I for many years felt as if the nation of Israel was forfiet of there own hand to the promises that GOD had given to them. This is taught in many churches and was perpetuated by the mother church over the first 1600 years of Christianity, even to the point of using the scriptures to support the actions of the crusades, the inquisition, and even the holocaust of WWII.

Some teach that Christians are now the true JEws and the JEws are now the gentiles.

The truth in scripture is that Christian gentiles who were without hope in the world and separated from the GOD of creation and the GOD of Israel, are melded into the promise of GOD to HIS chosen people. If this promise can be taken back or discarded, than the promise we have in this inheritance is equally perilous or pecarious. (I can tel my spelling is off but I can not for the life of me draw the proper spelling from my brain)

You need only to know for a certain that salvation is of THE LORD by faith in JESUS CHRIST and should you have opportunity to witness to someone of the Jewish faith, do not come at them as if trying to save their souls but rather as trying to introduce them to JESUS the CHRIST. It is in their own religion and their own prophets that they can and will see HIM, should GOD choose to grant that vision to them.

As the scriptue states, HE has blinded them to the truth until the time of the fulness of the gentiles. Only HE can remove that blindness.

HIS peace to you and yours.

Thanks Kross!

Yep that makes sense.

So the Jews are still saved through Christ is what you're saying right? I just wanted to get that clear.

They are just blinded now but will see the truth when God has all the Gentiles He predestined?

So glad so many people are willing to explain these things biblically to me here on Worthy

Thanks again! Sorry about the delay, I just got engaged so haven't been at the cmoputer much

Your sister in Christ,

Ella rose

That is close enough. I reallity, I am not 100% convinced of the position of ISrael. Since the scriptures, both NT and OT very clearly state that Israel will be saved, I know that to be true. Is there salvation requisite on belief in JESUS as the suffering savior, or whether their faith in GOD and being HIS chosen, looking for the coming conquering king is sufficient, I can not say. That is in GOD's hands.

All I know for certain is that the scriptures state all of Israel will be saved. How HE does that is up to HIM.

Peace

[Smalcald]

When you think of it, that is true across the board.

We should spread the Gospel because only Christ has the answer and He told us to spread the Gospel. However if God wants to bring Christ in some other way that is His decision, who am I to shut up his grace from others? Which is insane anyway as I couldn't even if I wanted to? I mean I barely know what is going on in my own life, barely clinging sometimes to a thin thread of faith and life, so who am I to go telling God how or who He is going to save? To me the more the better no matter who they are or how they get there, and in particular the Jews.

Lately I have been thinking what a futile and fruitless exercise it is to always be pondering and worrying about who is saved and who is not, who is going to hell and who is not, I mean it is out of our hands anyway. Maybe God will save every single Jewish person who ever lived, maybe He will pick the worst most reprobate sinful, atheist Jew who died 1000 years ago to save, who cares! Glory be to Him if He wills to do that.

[kross]

When you think of it, that is true across the board.

We should spread the Gospel because only Christ has the answer and He told us to spread the Gospel. However if God wants to bring Christ in some other way that is His decision, who am I to shut up his grace from others? Which is insane anyway as I couldn't even if I wanted to? I mean I barely know what is going on in my own life, barely clinging sometimes to a thin thread of faith and life, so who am I to go telling God how or who He is going to save? To me the more the better no matter who they are or how they get there, and in particular the Jews.

Lately I have been thinking what a futile and fruitless exercise it is to always be pondering and worrying about who is saved and who is not, who is going to hell and who is not, I mean it is out of our hands anyway. Maybe God will save every single Jewish person who ever lived, maybe He will pick the worst most reprobate sinful, atheist Jew who died 1000 years ago to save, who cares! Glory be to Him if He wills to do that.

AMEN