Evolution: The grand experiment

[Guest Ditchens]

Faith is a choice, not a mandate.

Maybe you can tell me since no other atheist has so far ... what is the probability statistics that our DNA, having enough information in them to create a library of information from here to the sun, could happen out of chance?

Well, first off, evolution does NOT happen by random. Far, far from it. The factors that influence it, such as the environment and factors from other species, are indeed random, but the result highly ordered. Our DNA began as a self-replicating molecule that was used by the most basic cells, little more than complex molecules themselves, to allow them to express certain essential proteins. After billions of years of environmental pressure to change and upgrade, DNA slowly began to change and adapt to it's changing environment. The other alternative was simply extinction (and countless species went down that road for not being able to adapt, change and thereby evolve). This process continued throughout the ages until it, relatively very recently indeed, resulted in us, and we are by no means an end result or an image of perfection. So, to answer your question, there is 0 chance that it happened by chance. Evolution is not a game of chance.

Then, if I may ask, how do you believe it all got started?

Then, if it all began as random factors, what is the probability of such a randomness to become so perfected to create such a species as a human we have today?

Randomness has nothing to do with it. Im not sure how it all got started, but Im waiting for what science has to say after future discoveries have beens made as opposed to simply jumping on the creation bandwagon. Its too easy an explanation for me. I already explained how the simplest DNA of the simplest organisms eventually led to us. And even the origin of DNA is not random. Like I said, the influencing factors are indeed random, but the result is not.

[nebula]

...the video presentation is saying - or rather the evolutionists themselves are saying they cannot find a fossil ancestry for the pterosaurs. No ancestor, no transition, nothing! For all the fossils they have found of pterosaurs, they have found nothing that can be claimed as an ancestor to the animal.

This is false, just recently such a fossil was found - Darwinopterus modularis.

How recently? "Just" recently enough to be found after this book/video series was made?

The series is 12 years in the making (did you read that in the OP?).

Also, these are actual evolutionary scientists making this statement, so you can't peg this on Creationist pseudoscience.

Warning: this link contains real science explained by an actual paleontologist.

OK, if I have time later I will read this. But really, being derogatory is not going to win you points either Hal.

Again, watch the 1 minute video clip and see who the people were who were making this statement.

[Guest Ditchens]

Well, first off, evolution does NOT happen by random. Far, far from it. The factors that influence it, such as the environment and factors from other species, are indeed random, but the result highly ordered. Our DNA began as a self-replicating molecule that was used by the most basic cells, little more than complex molecules themselves, to allow them to express certain essential proteins. After billions of years of environmental pressure to change and upgrade, DNA slowly began to change and adapt to it's changing environment. The other alternative was simply extinction (and countless species went down that road for not being able to adapt, change and thereby evolve). This process continued throughout the ages until it, relatively very recently indeed, resulted in us, and we are by no means an end result or an image of perfection. So, to answer your question, there is 0 chance that it happened by chance. Evolution is not a game of chance.

So...where did the original DNA come from?

(Please use the quote feature because everything above your post looks like it was written by you when it obviously was not.)

The original DNA came from linear molecules made up of four nitrogenous bases that came together through various chemical reactions and were ingested by the earliest cells. If you want more info, check out just about any biology store.

[OneLight]

Well, first off, evolution does NOT happen by random. Far, far from it. The factors that influence it, such as the environment and factors from other species, are indeed random, but the result highly ordered. Our DNA began as a self-replicating molecule that was used by the most basic cells, little more than complex molecules themselves, to allow them to express certain essential proteins. After billions of years of environmental pressure to change and upgrade, DNA slowly began to change and adapt to it's changing environment. The other alternative was simply extinction (and countless species went down that road for not being able to adapt, change and thereby evolve). This process continued throughout the ages until it, relatively very recently indeed, resulted in us, and we are by no means an end result or an image of perfection. So, to answer your question, there is 0 chance that it happened by chance. Evolution is not a game of chance.

So...where did the original DNA come from?

(Please use the quote feature because everything above your post looks like it was written by you when it obviously was not.)

The original DNA came from linear molecules made up of four nitrogenous bases that came together through various chemical reactions and were ingested by the earliest cells. If you want more info, check out just about any biology store.

I would like you to answer. You come here with information, so I am asking you for your proof. What is the probability of this happening? Numbers please ...

[Guest Ditchens]

Well, first off, evolution does NOT happen by random. Far, far from it. The factors that influence it, such as the environment and factors from other species, are indeed random, but the result highly ordered. Our DNA began as a self-replicating molecule that was used by the most basic cells, little more than complex molecules themselves, to allow them to express certain essential proteins. After billions of years of environmental pressure to change and upgrade, DNA slowly began to change and adapt to it's changing environment. The other alternative was simply extinction (and countless species went down that road for not being able to adapt, change and thereby evolve). This process continued throughout the ages until it, relatively very recently indeed, resulted in us, and we are by no means an end result or an image of perfection. So, to answer your question, there is 0 chance that it happened by chance. Evolution is not a game of chance.

So...where did the original DNA come from?

(Please use the quote feature because everything above your post looks like it was written by you when it obviously was not.)

The original DNA came from linear molecules made up of four nitrogenous bases that came together through various chemical reactions and were ingested by the earliest cells. If you want more info, check out just about any biology store.

I would like you to answer. You come here with information, so I am asking you for your proof. What is the probability of this happening? Numbers please ...

Sorry, Im not a statistician and I dont like to pluck random "facts" from the internet. All I can tell you the chances of life happening by random are zero and that this is not a characteristic of evolution. Just because somethings unlikely doesnt mean it cant happen and it doesnt mean that we need to throw out science in favor of superstition if it doesnt immediately answer our questions.

[nebula]

Now, the theory of evolution does not in any way say the bible is a lie. <snip>

Evolution simply means that the genesis story is impossible.

This is what we call a contradiction, Ditchens.

To say the Genesis story is impossible is to call it a lie.

Now, I even admit, the whole Ida thing was quite overblown. But just because of that, why does it mean that we evolution is wrong?

I was addressing the credibility of scientists - you know, the point you had brought up?

Evolution does not pretend to have all the answers

Could have fooled me!

And what proof of a mind is there in natural phenomena such as the human appendix, or ostrich wings, or horses with 3 toes, or flightless birds or aquatic mammals?

OK, if you are going to argue that "because we haven't found it yet doesn't mean it does not exist," please do not turn around and say that "because we can't find a purpose and use for it, it doesn't have one."

As for the human appendix, it does have a function - more and more evidence is being found for it's use and function as a part of the immune system, much like tonsils. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/84937.php

In previous arguments, I have discovered that some people confuse the vermiform appendix with the cecum. The cecum is a distinct organ in some animals. In humans, the cecum is the entrance portion of the large intestine the vermiform appendix extends off of the cecum.

As for the other animals, what's the problem with a "mind" creating flightless birds or three toes on the horse?

Speaking of - what is the evolutionary explanation for the T-Rex arms? Did natural selection prefer vestigial arms?

All these things are explained totally by evolution, all creationism can say is "oh, god did it. Why? Because I say so."

Unfortunately, most Creationists are not scientists and do not have the scientific "why" inquiry to investigate why. Basically, they just don't care.

And the books by the authors I mentioned do critically analyze evolution and simply cant find any reason why is could be untrue.

That's because they belief logic should naturally exist, that particles should be operated by logic, that logic is just the natural state of affairs,.....

[OneLight]

Well, first off, evolution does NOT happen by random. Far, far from it. The factors that influence it, such as the environment and factors from other species, are indeed random, but the result highly ordered. Our DNA began as a self-replicating molecule that was used by the most basic cells, little more than complex molecules themselves, to allow them to express certain essential proteins. After billions of years of environmental pressure to change and upgrade, DNA slowly began to change and adapt to it's changing environment. The other alternative was simply extinction (and countless species went down that road for not being able to adapt, change and thereby evolve). This process continued throughout the ages until it, relatively very recently indeed, resulted in us, and we are by no means an end result or an image of perfection. So, to answer your question, there is 0 chance that it happened by chance. Evolution is not a game of chance.

So...where did the original DNA come from?

(Please use the quote feature because everything above your post looks like it was written by you when it obviously was not.)

The original DNA came from linear molecules made up of four nitrogenous bases that came together through various chemical reactions and were ingested by the earliest cells. If you want more info, check out just about any biology store.

I would like you to answer. You come here with information, so I am asking you for your proof. What is the probability of this happening? Numbers please ...

Sorry, Im not a statistician and I dont like to pluck random "facts" from the internet. All I can tell you the chances of life happening by random are zero and that this is not a characteristic of evolution. Just because somethings unlikely doesnt mean it cant happen and it doesnt mean that we need to throw out science in favor of superstition if it doesnt immediately answer our questions.

You call faith superstition, yet it is far more probable that God created everything as scripture tells us then it is to believe the probability of it all happening. Nobody dismisses science. I dismiss how science tries to rule out God instead of trying to find God in their science.

You are placing your belief on something that is far more unrealistic, harder to grasp and accept then any "superstition", as you call it.

So, back to my other question. How do you believe all this came about?

[traditional]

Evolution by its nature denies a Creator.

The other scientific theories you mention do not call the Bible a lie the way the Theory of Evolution does

Evolution has never said the Bible is a lie. You say that evolution says that. Its not a conspiracy, scientists follow the facts.

I agree with Carlin. We should accept the evolution theory as the scientific explanation (but not necessary as the religious). I have actually made a film which try to make this point on Youtube. You can see it on the following link:

*edit links*

***

Edited November 6, 2009 by Matthitjah
No youtube on Worthy

[MorningGlory]

Well, first off, evolution does NOT happen by random. Far, far from it. The factors that influence it, such as the environment and factors from other species, are indeed random, but the result highly ordered. Our DNA began as a self-replicating molecule that was used by the most basic cells, little more than complex molecules themselves, to allow them to express certain essential proteins. After billions of years of environmental pressure to change and upgrade, DNA slowly began to change and adapt to it's changing environment. The other alternative was simply extinction (and countless species went down that road for not being able to adapt, change and thereby evolve). This process continued throughout the ages until it, relatively very recently indeed, resulted in us, and we are by no means an end result or an image of perfection. So, to answer your question, there is 0 chance that it happened by chance. Evolution is not a game of chance.

So...where did the original DNA come from?

(Please use the quote feature because everything above your post looks like it was written by you when it obviously was not.)

The original DNA came from linear molecules made up of four nitrogenous bases that came together through various chemical reactions and were ingested by the earliest cells. If you want more info, check out just about any biology store.

Biology store?

So what made the four bases come together? What were the chemical reactions? Where did the earliest cells come from? Are you saying that DNA began for no apparent reason? I counter that nothing happens without a reason...even if that reason is not immediately apparent.

[OneLight]

Nobody dismisses science. I dismiss how science tries to rule out God instead of trying to find God in their science.

No, it doesn't work like that. Science follows facts and if scientists were actively trying to find god in their science they would have an agenda and would be far more likely to fabricate evidence (or mislead) to support a supernatural creator. If the theory doesn't fit, the theory goes. That's how science works and that's how it should stay.

Speculation.